Meet Hanks QD Too, aka "Scarlet."
Scarlet is a very nice mare - in fact, she's the sort of mare that even I refer to as a breeding quality mare. She's well bred - the daughter of AQHA Champion Impressive Bar Leo out of a daughter of AQHA Champion (and very famous sire) Blondy's Dude. She's HYPP N/N.
And she's structurally good - even in this shitty condition, we can see a good shoulder, deep through the chest, not downhill, good pasterns, pretty neck set...this is going to be a beautiful mare when she has weight on.
Which amazingly enough IS going to happen because a reader of this blog, Julie Sheppard, saved her ass on Saturday night at the Pony Express Horse Auction in Covington, Georgia. Where she was RIDDEN THROUGH in this condition at the direction of her seller, MIKE GREEN from BYRON, GEORGIA. Hopefully someone here knows Mike and can alert him that the ENTIRE EQUINE COMMUNITY is about to know what a cruel, evil, unredeemable, soulless asshat he is. Hey, if you're in Georgia, make sure you never sell MIKE GREEN from BYRON, GEORGIA a horse!
Now the auctioneer at the sale gets a GOLD STAR because when Julie spoke up and said she wanted the mare to rehab for 4-H, he gave her the mare for free. HOORAY. I do not know his name, but thank you, sir. Apparently the bidding was at a whopping $31.
Scarlet is in bad shape. She has a heart murmur, ventral edema, possible congestive heart failure - needs an Echocardiogram to determine the severity, she has a wind-sucking, air-filled uterus and needs to have a Caslicks procedure, and she needs her teeth floated. She is now finally under the care of a veterinarian, thanks to Julie, who is sucking up the cost out of her personal money.
Let's review Scarlet's history here. This mare has had eight owners and produced eleven registered foals in her nineteen years on this earth. Not a one of them has a single AQHA point or has even participated in the Horseback Riding Program, so I think it is safe to assume most of her owners were Breeders Without a Clue. They had no plan for her foals but they kept making sure she popped them out...over and over and over again. She was sold to Mr. Asshat Green by an outfit called J&L Quarter Horses in Saint Cloud, Florida. I can't find out anything more about them on the web, and indeed they may have been completely duped by Mr. Asshat into believing he was a "good home," but I will note that the J&L folks popped three babies out of this good mare by completely unremarkable, nothing stallions like Easter Blue Bar, Hickory's Smooth Dude (earner of a whopping THREE halter points in ABRA, woot!), and some creature called Playin With Kid that has no show record, and I can't even seem to find out if he's HYPP negative though it bears noting he's sired by N/H stallion Kid Clu. Feel free to research further, I ran out of free AQHA searches for the month. Shit, people, you HAD a good mare and you didn't spend the money to breed her to a good stallion...not once. And look at the smorgasboard of bloodlines you bred her to. What the hell was even the point? Not like you had a discipline in mind!Regardless, the current history seems to be: Clueless Florida breeder sold her to Asshat Green in May 2005, and he's managed to damn near kill her in the meantime. Now our faithful Blog Reader is stuck cleaning up this godawful mess, at her expense. That's not fair. A lot of other people owned this mare and got babies out of her, and I'll bet some of you know them (or even are them). Harold Mead bred her, in Valdosta, Georgia. Then she was sold to Danny Ray Hemmer, in Lamar, Arkansas. From there she went to Jerry and Carol Cluck in Van Buren, Arkansas, and they flipped her in three weeks to Joe Steidley, in Alpena, Arkansas. Joe had her for five years and sold her to the Lyman Shoemaker Estate in Lowell, Arkansas. They had her for about a year and a half and sold her to Danny Ramsey, in Colcord, Oklahoma. Danny had her for five years and sold her to the J&L folks.
If you're on this list, I'll tell you what, I'm going to think very highly of you if you get in touch and shoot over some money for the care of this mare. (Don't paypal me, I don't have her) Show me that some of you can and will take responsibility for horses you have owned that fall into bad hands. I could use my faith in human beings restored a bit. To clarify, Julie's not asking for money - that's all my idea because these situations make me very angry. Why are the rest of us always cleaning up the constant stream of neglected former broodmares? Finally, as Julie points out "My biggest issue is with the Department of Agriculture agent on duty (as required by law) that allowed the horse to be sold. I feel that the horse should have been impounded and an investigation started to determine why she was in such condition." I agree. So all of you, please contact the Georgia Department of Agriculture's Animal Protection Division - they have e-mail - and weigh in on how there needs to be a formal investigation. Let's not only do our bit to take down Mr. Asshat Green, but also people like him at auctions all over.
Finally, I know someone is gonna pop in and say "all breeding is bad, see, see, a good bred mare was at a sale for $31!" Well, no. You know, this mare was less likely to wind up like this - by a mile. She just seems to have drawn the short straw for much of her recent history if not always. It does happen - but it doesn't happen to get of AQHA Champions as much as it happens to get of some no-name, no-pedigree-no record horse. I'll continue to argue that point with anybody.







194 comments:
That poor poor girl! I'm so afraid that there are SO SO many more just like her everywhere...way to go backyard breeders. Let's run the cost of decent horses down so that they end up like this poor girl.
Kudos to Julie!
Thanks for posting this one, Fugs.
I am going to write my e-mail ASAP.
I'll be sending an email as well. I want to hear what they have to say about NOT doing their job and investigating this mare's condition.
Good Job Julie!
Oh dear God, how is that mare even standing? I've seen bad...but...wow. She has no rear end. How is it she is even alive? And the string of people she's gone through is unbelievable. Someone on this blog is going to know someone who knows someone who knows someone in that history.
Meanwhile, I'm writing a letter regarding the inspector at the auction. I've never done it before, but it's the least I can do.
This makes me wonder about some of the mares that wind up as recips in those huge herds in Texas and Oklahoma. Some of them are pretty nice under all the hair, dirt, and lack of care. It's especially evident when they are friendly, easy to catch, and know how to lead. Some of the crazies end up there for a reason, but it would be cool if you could submit hair samples to the AQHA or APHA and have them determine if the horse ever was registered or not (as far as I know, you can only confirm if a horse has the correct sire/dam or verify that it is a specific individual).
Great post, and a good example of seeing through the condition to the quality.
If anyone comes up with an email address, snail mail, etc for Mike Green, please pass it along. I'd like to send him a copy of the email I sent to the Dept of Ag. I want him to know how famous he's going to be in such a short time.
What is that weird lump on her stomach/girth area?
I just answered my own question. It must be the ventral edema Fugly mentioned. Sorry, just needed to read more closely!
Kudos to Julie and also to the auctioneer who did what was best for the horse!
I too will be emailing the GA Dept. of Ag about their lack of concern on the part of the horse. Isn't that what they are there for?
The PLA auction in Chandler isn't much better. The one local rescue bought an Arab mare for $12.50. She was in similar bad shape, and didn't make it even though an effort was made on the part of her rescuers.
Horses like these sometimes don't even make it through the ring, they are just put straight in the 'kill pen'. Lucky for this mare that wasn't the policy and someone was watching out for her.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Julie.
I needed some faith in humanity restored, today. And that mare so clearly needs you. I'll say it again--thank you.
As for the Mike Green jerkwad, I personally say do not warn him. Do not give him a heads up and a chance to get his story in order, or to maybe bulldoze out the three tons of moldy feces I am quite sure he uses for flooring in his "barn."
And--Julie, I agree with you about the Agriculture agent. But, if the mare had been impounded, she would have wound up dead in short order, either by euth or just waiting for proper care.
So, if she does have a chance at rehab and a quality life, then I am glad things happened the way they did.
Bless you faithful FUGLY reader for saving this mare.
I deleted the post with a possible Mike Green because I don't want phone numbers posted for Mike Green unless you KNOW it is THAT Mike Green...very common name.
Someone in the horse community can positively ID this guy, I'm guessing. I don't want an innocent person harrassed and it could easily happen with such a common name.
Everyone say a prayer for this mare that she does not crash about a week from now :(
And for those that don't know what a condition score IS, that's less than a TWO.
I was just involved in a "rescue" in December with a mare in that condition-she was euth'd when she crashed :(
Hey Julie!
Good luck with the mare, she will surely be something when she's fat and sassy again! Great pedigree.
I just sent my letter wanting to know why they didn't do their job. Dang, I wish I lived in Ga (not really), I would be in my car doing a drive by to see if that could be the right person. Can't wait to hear.
That is not an insult on Georgia by the way. I grew up in California, but my dad almost took a job in Marrieta when I was about eight. My parents went so far as renting a house, checking schools, etc. My mom nixed the whole idea as she didn't want us kids growing up with southern prejudices. At the time we were disappointed not to have the adventure of a new place. Now I see it was pretty brave to make a stand that way. And no rednecks among us. I do love the south to visit. Though slave quarter B & B's creep me out. Sorry to get so far off subject.
Poor mare - This looks/sounds so familiar - I rescued a mare that was just as thin last October - She was sent through the auction ring and nobody bid on her - Not even at $20 - Because she had no top teeth - As I was leaving the auctioneer asked me and friend if we wanted her - He said she was too nice to send to Mexico - He was just going to put her in a feedlot and fatten her up - Of course I took her - I didn't realize she was registered - She is very well bred - Her name is Doc Frosts Fancy - She is by Docs Jack Frost by Doc Bar - I was told that they started breeding her at age 3 and she had a foal every year until a few years ago - Her last foal was born in 2005 I believe - She's 25 and the sweetest mare I've ever known - She's always following us around wanting to be petted and loved on - ALL she needed was to be dewormed, have her teeth floated and be put on a good feed and alfalfa hay - What a shame to toss this mare out like trash - I know she made someone a LOT of money - She has a forever home here even though she will only be a pasture ornament - We love her - She can be seen on my website www.paritacreekstables.com
Looks like Julie is a regular on Horsetopia, and is posting updates there.
Saves her having to wade through comments here if you want to there to see what's up.
In the "Meet the Horses" area.
I hope all goes well for Julie and Scarlet. No animal deserves to be treated like that. I have sent my inquiry to Georgia. Hopefully the point blank questions will raise some eyebrows at the least.
fuglyhorseoftheday - is there an address that donations can be sent to?
Poor poor mare.I added Hickorys Smooth Dude and Playin With Kid to allbreedpedigree.com.
By the looks of Playin With Kids pedigree I HIGHLY doubt he is N/N.
Thanks for making a difference Julie! Good luck with Scarlett, she's a lucky girl to have you!
Kudos to Fugly for naming names.
Julie, I'm sending good Juju to you and the old gal.
Disgusting violation of GA's Humane Care for Equine Act.
Sec of Agriculture:
Ed Schafer
Edward.W.Schafer@usda.gov
Georgia Ag Commisioner:
Tommy Irvin
tirvin@agr.state.ga.us
Manager, Animal Protection Atlanta
Mary Greene
AnimalProtection-Administration@agr.state.ga.us
Covington Police Chief
Stacey L. Cotton
cpdhq@covingtonpolice.com
Local FOX 5 investigative reporter:
Dale Russell
dale.russell@myfoxatlanta.com
Byron Police Chief
Wesley H. Cannon
478-956-2880
(someone please get his email)
If Mike Green is the guy I am thinking of he is a big time horse trader. He makes it to all the auctions. May not be the same one but if it is this is about normal for him!!!!
Very sad and happening more and more. I just acquired a rescue myself last week. I got an ag deputy involved. There are a lot of details I can't discuss but we got that mare out of there!! She was tied to a tree with a dog chain, skin and bones, hair falling out. Very bad deal. My vet has done her teeth and she is doing better.
We need more people getting involved like Julie!!!! If we stand by and let people get away with this abuse it will continue to happen. WE ALL NEED TO TAKE A STAND AND PUT A STOP TO THIS!!!
I am friends with Julie and was at the sale when this mare found a safe place to land. I want to mention the fact that she still has milk from a baby suckling off her. Supposedly the weanling was at the sale also.
Fugly, per Julie, the address for the seller posted earlier in this blog was correct. I just got off the phone with her a few minutes ago.
I'm here to tell you, she was not the only horse in bad condition at this sale. There was also a 5 yo racking gelding that looked horrible and was being ridden by a very large man. The bidding on that horse went to $330, but they no saled him, they wanted $750 - I literally felt sick. That particular horse haunts me. He was only 5. I was so hoping he was going to go somewhere different.
On that note, It is my understanding that kill buyers no longer travel all the way to GA for horses, maybe I'm wrong - that's what I've heard.
Back to Julie's mare - she's so sweet, she nickers when she knows you are coming to see her. On Julie's behalf, if anyone could donate even $5 to help with this horse it would be much appreciated. We do not have our own farms, we board. Now the board is going to have to be paid on this horse every month as well, not to mention her medical expenses, feed, etc. Julie already pays board on two other older horses. The most pressing thing the mare needs is an echo done at the University of Georgia Vet School, to determine the severity of her heart murmur.
Thank you Julie! This is absolutely heartbreaking, and will draft a letter myself.
If Julie will set up a PayPal account or let us know where to send funds, I will personally harass my friends and family for donations toward this mare's vet care. I know she's not asking for help or handouts, and I know we horse people are a proud bunch, but I also know from experience how difficult it is to shoulder the financial burden of a rescue all by yourself, no matter how sound your resources are.
Oh wow. Just so sad... Thank you for posting this, and posting so much about her history. Hopefully someone will step up here.
Way to go Julie! I can't wait to see how this very nice mare looks in a year, with some food.
Thank you Michelle for the update. Please let Julie know how appreciated your work is by those of us on the Fugly board.
Paypal info would be good or contact info for the Univ. so we can all chip in on the echo would be good too.
Kudos and good job!
I have a son of Impressive Bar Leo - He is absolutely Beautiful. Athletic. Priceless.
I cannot believe the condition of that poor mare!
Poor baby, I'm rather shocked that people managed to get their hands on her and then do all of that crap as I'm sure she was selling for a lot at one point.
that poor, poor horse!
Many kudos to Julie for rescuing her, she looks like she will be a gorgeous horse now that someone is actually feeding her!
Hmm, it's interesting, I was just looking at the lines for that QH stud they bred her to you posted, and, though I'm somewhat interested in how 2 thoroughbred bred together made a QH, that the older QHs were all NORMAL looking, "using horses", not muscle bound freaks like you think of a QH today.
Poor 'ol girl. I hope she gets fattened up and taken care of. I bet she has a lot of years (happy ones, too) left in her and could make a great 4-H horse. She's the diamond in the rough you look for. Just wish she wasn't in this condition...
Yes, please post the PayPal info. I have a few friends who would like to donate also.
just a thought, the heart murmur and edema could very likely be related to her condition and improve and resolve as she gets the care she needs. If she's anemic that can be the cause of the murmur, and if she's losing protein from her blood, the fluid follows and pools in the ventral body. Good luck to her!
Fugly
Thank you so much for giving this mare the attention that she deserves.
Hi Everyone,
Thank you for all the well wishes and support.
I do have a Paypal account, the email address is bhbulldogs@yahoo.com
You can also click on this link and make a donation through the webpage I have started for Scarlet.
Thanks So Much,
Julie
Ooops...
I forgot the link
http://save-a-horse.tripod.com/id13.html
oh yeah, and with some fat on her I bet her vulvar conformation will improve, though a Caslick's would still be a good idea (and I'd hope it would be the last one she ever had)
I am so glad you posted all this information on this little mare. Bless you Julie for saving her. It looks like an uphill climb, but you've got a lot of back up support :) Fugs, if you could ask Julie to keep us updated on the condition, it would be nice. And if she needs any donations, I'd be interested in making a contribution.
Best of luck
WOW.
JUST WOW.
Cuillin I was just going to mention that, but I guess you beat me to it.
If she has had one before, I would hope the breeding folks would have enough sense not to breed or let her foal without opening it first.
*headshaking* you just never know though...
As mentioned by either Michelle or Julie though the mare was still driping milk and her weanling foal was reportedly at the auction. I would bet she hasn't had a Caslick's in her life. The foal may have helped in taking some of the weight off her, due to poor nutritional managment on somebody's part.
Poor baby! She doesn't look 19 even 500lbs underweight! Julie is awesome.
PayPal donations to bhbulldogs@yahoo.com
The board on this horse is going to be $100 a month but she's worth it to Julie and everyone else at our barn. That's in addition to the vulva surgery, teeth floating, the echo at UGA, medicine, feed, and hay.
I agree, we shouldn't have to clean up others messes but at least some of us do, for the love of the horse. A lot of folks don't get that. I do. I know others do too.
The reason I am mentioning board is because she's not only a horse that Julie didn't have to take, she's a horse that is going to have to be boarded as well. That says a lot about the size of Julie's heart. Julie already has two other aging horses that she's boarding. I'm not trying to sound like gimmee, gimmee, I'm just trying to help Julie and the mare out.
I am ashamed to say that I live in Georgia right at the moment, but here is something even worse... she isn't the worst I have seen come through horse sales down here. The last horse I bought at auction looked worse that her.
As for pitiful sales, someone in the Cleveland, TN area should visit the Burrell Sale on Monday nights off of Hwy 411. There is some awfully scary stuff being put through it. I will have to get back up there one night and take some pictures and prices for everyone.
J&L Horses in St. Cloud Florida???? I live in the area (my other farm is in St. Cloud) and I have never heard of this outfit...but that doesnt mean there arent a stack of morons over there who think they are full-blown experts at everything horse...
Poor old girl. Julie you're awesome. I can't wait to see her in about 6 months to a year. Please keep us posted.
Hope that mare does well, sounds like she really deserves a second chance.
Also thank the auctioneer for what he did. He didnt have to do that.
Thank you Julie for saving her. She looks like a sweet mare.
I'l also cross post your webpage to another bulletin board.
If we could stomach it, we could each attend a local auction and post a report.
Then for those who think "It's just not like that here-____________ (insert city and state of choice)", we can send them to read our postings from wherever folks participate.
Might be an eye opener for some...
While sad and disgusting for the rest of us.
Reminds me of the black ASB mare I was able to upgrade as a teen. We didn't have her a year as not only had the poor thing been bred into the ground, she ended up having gotten EPM at the place who gave her to us. Beautiful, beautiful mare, too.
Bless you, Julie, for getting this girl out of such a shit situation, and kudos to the auctioneer, too. Wishing Scarlet a solid recovery and many good years to come!
thanks to julie for saving this poor girl from a bad trip on a double-decker; thanks to the auction guy who had a heart; and thanks to fugs, as usual, for bringing this to our attention.
will send a few pennies to julie to help where it may.
no animal should ever be in this shape. what is the matter with people? mike green is an asshat, and there is a special place in hell for people like him. but, you can't tell me that there weren't other people around who saw this mare and didn't do or say anything. fucktards. god i hate people most days.....
and, i tell you, just the thought of seeing that mare being ridden into the ring..... in that shape.... words escape me.
crazyhorse said...
J&L Horses in St. Cloud Florida???? I live in the area (my other farm is in St. Cloud) and I have never heard of this outfit...but that doesnt mean there arent a stack of morons over there who think they are full-blown experts at everything horse...
--------------------------------
Hey don't go thinking your area cornered the market on stupidity. It's everywhere. ROFLOL!
Equus-
and, i tell you, just the thought of seeing that mare being ridden into the ring..... in that shape.... words escape me.
We had a boarder who dropped off her two horses for the weekend while she went camping with her family. The first horse was in training and was thin upon his arrival but the other two looked similar to Julies' new mare in the OP. She tried to tell us one was a mare. Both were geldings!
Of course her hubby was an ex-player for the local NFL team and she RODE THEM with the Sheriff's mounted posse.
Yet NONE of them turned her in. I couldn't stand her and wouldn't talk to her. It was pointless as she didn't listen anyways. She was not attractive, yet flaunted her body and acted as if everyone wanted a piece of her action. Sorry, I need to go hurl.)
Repulsive is the only word that comes to mind, when discussing her or the way she cares for her horses.
I am in GA- have it on good authority (from a police officer) that they have NO WHERE TO PUT siezed horses. Nowhere. He (and his department) are under orders to NOT sieze any livestock. I have been working on checking this info as well... so far have not been able to turn up anything different...
Kudos Julie.
Keep us posted on how she is doing....
There's an auction here in WI at the end of February and I was planning on attending. I can post info on the horses that go through the ring. It won't be news to all of you...same shit goes on here. :(
The Mexico, MO auction is the 2nd and 4th Saturday of every month. I've been there once and it was heartbreaking. I got some good deals on tack but I wanted to bring all the horses home with me. The old Belgian driving team about killed me. Brother and Sister had been together their whole lives. The asshole getting rid of them ground drove them into the ring in harness. They were extremely thin and their hooves hadn't been done in God knows how long. He tried to pass them off as early 20's in age. An old farmer jumped in the ring and looked at their teeth (what was left of them) and laughed and yelled "they're 30 if they're a day". I felt so sorry for them. The pair went for $100 to the kill buyer I'm sure. That auction is known to be a kill auction though.
I had to jump in here, I went to an auction in TX and the last horse they ran thru was an adorable POA, off but good weight. A friend was building a lesson program so after no one bid I jumped up and said I'll take her. Well it was after so I had to do a 'side' deal. Turns out it was a 3 or nothing for $1500. There was a gray TB mare..out of GALLANT MAN & DAMACUS that looked like that mare and a bay gelding that was a little fatter. It was 2am and I bought them ALL!!! I just couldn't leave any of them. The mare was so weak I couldn't put her back on the trailer w/him. I picked them up the next day and they looked worse in the daylight. My friend just shook her head and was like what did you do???? Long story short: POA is an autistic boy's best friend and is a family horse. The TB mare went to CO to a great home to have one more foal and be retired. The bay gelding went to a lady who does nothing but rehab..he was a little to hot for me to handle. I miss the mare and regret selling her but I know she's in a great home and well taken care of.
Sent an e-mail too. I hope that everyone who is reading this does the same!
Playin With Kid is very imbred
http://www.allbreedpedigree.
com/playin+with+kid
http://www.allbreedpedigree.
com/hickorys+smooth+dude
There are two impound facilities in the Metro Atlanta area. One is/was located in Decatur, GA (Dekalb County). The other is located in Mansfield, GA, just 5 miles from the Pony Express Auction (the auction that Julie bought this mare at). They DO have a place to put seized animals. The Georgia Equine Rescue League is fed up to their eye balls with the Georgia Dept. of Agriculture from what I understand. In addition, there was a big stink about the Georgia Department of Agriculture selling the seized horses from Pike County at THE PONY EXPRESS AUCTION, thus exposing them to high levels of further ass hattery (as fugly puts it). The Pike County bust was huge here, it was even on the local news. This guy was very wealthy yet hoarded 50+ starving horses, dogs, cats, everything. As one officer put it,the farm was an entire ecosystem, with the dogs feeding on the dying etc. It was really, really, bad. If they supposedly don't have anywhere to put the seized starving horses, what is the dept of ag doing with our tax dollars? It is against the law to have an animal in this condition - period. If you are not seizing them you are not enforcing THE LAW. Here's an idea ... buy some freaking land, build a freaking barn, hire educated people, and do your job so my friends won't go back to the pony express to do your job for you. There is plenty of land left in Georgia - BUY SOME, if two impound facilities in the Metro are not enough. I don't have a clue how many other impound facilities there are. Google up Pike County Pony Express Georgia Equine Rescue League and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Julie, you're an angel!! I've been thinking of getting a buddy for my mare but I don't think I'm strong enough for an auction. Plus I'm not sure I'm staying where we are and boarding 2 horses here is alot more than I can handle. I hope Scarlet has a safe recovery.
The poor thing. I hate to see a nice mare like that in such horrid condition.
I'm looking to work with my barn's 4-H group this spring to educate them about the reality of neglected and unwanted horses. Will definitely be using this poor mare as an example!
For those of you who have done multiple rescues, what would you say is the average $ amount to rehab a horse from say a BCS of 2, back to full health, barring any huge medical problems?
Michelle- I know about Pike Co and the disaster there- have talked with several people who now have horses from there. I am in the SE part of GA- and the cop we know who I mentioned earlier is also down here. Orders came from The Top in the Dept.... Makes him sick too, as he is also a horse nut. Sure, he reports them, responds to calls about starving stock, and right now, his orders are to let them stay there, file complaint with local ACO, and monitor the conditions.
His hands are tied.
Seems like NoGA has more of the resources, and those of us here in the SE get "forgotten" about.
I am also one of the people at the barn and let me tell you, I have never felt so mad in my life when those idiots were riding her. I knew I just had to save her. And so basically the whole barn gave in and we saved her. She is such a sweet horse, I cant wait til she gains her wait back, you cant help but look at her and just fall for her. She will diff. have the best life that she has left that we can give her.
First, kudos to Julie and the auctioneer for helping this mare. Julie, I live pretty close to you and will e-mail you separately. Please let me know if I can help you with this girl.
Ok, apparently there is a lot of confusion over how livestock is seized in Georgia.
The ONLY agency in Georgia that can seize livestock is the Department of Agriculture and then only at the direction of the state veterinarian. Local agencies such as sheriff's departments and animal rescue groups cannot legally confiscate a livestock animal and they certainly have nowhere to take them. Complaining to them and about them does no good.
On the other had, the Department of Agriculture has two impound facilities. They are located in Decatur, GA and in Jasper County, Georgia. While they are owned and managed by the state, I know the Georgia Equine Rescue League does a lot of fund raising for them. Typically the horses are re-habbed there and then sold at a special Dept of Ag auction with contracts that they be inspected by state inspectors for the following two years. I did hear about the case where the state sent some horses to the Pony Express auction, but from what I have read there was a bit of a blow-up within the Dept of Ag about that and it is unlikely to happen again.
I do not believe that there is a Department of Agriculture employee at every sale at every auction facility. With only 11 inspectors in the state they are far too understaffed to accomplish that. The auctions are required to have a veterinarian at the auction to pull Coggins on horses that don't have one and to document any signs of officially reportable diseases (i.e. West Nile, rabies and Strangles ONLY).
I have attended the Pony Express Auction a number of times and can say that I've never seen a horse in as bad of condition as this mare. When I was there last summer a couple of horses sold in the $300 range but the majority were going for $500+. Most were no-saled if the bidding didn't reach high enough. If there were killer buyers there, they were being extremely quiet and weren't hauling with anything bigger than a 4 horse trailer. I do know that that auction has gone through a management/ownership change recently, but in my experience horses like this mare are by far the exception.
FYI, the phone number to report equine neglect and abuse in Georgia is 1-800-282-5852. Their hours are M-F 8 - 4:30.
I have never commented on here but get kicks out of some of everyones thinking but just a thought if you want money from previous owners to help your friend and this mare you might not want to insult them first. Kiss ass type thing get the money then be an ass, just a thought.
Mrs.Mom---
UNBELIEVABLE! I do believe land down there is cheaper than around Atlanta too. You would think they could spring for a couple of facilities in that part of the state. I imagine there are more horses in south Georgia than North anyway. , it's so much more rural. I do know several of the horses that came through Pony Express Saturday night were purchased at another auction in South Georgia on Friday night. Wow. I know the drought has really hurt horses across the board, since a lot of folks depend solely on the land to feed the animals. Not excusing them, just stating a fact.
suzan commented:
I do not believe that there is a Department of Agriculture employee at every sale at every auction facility. With only 11 inspectors in the state they are far too understaffed to accomplish that.
It is required now that an AG agent be at each Equine auction in GA by law.
I have already verified with the DOA that an agent was on duty, although I never saw them.
They are being paid to be there.
The DOA does have facilities to take impounded animals to, maybe not 100 at a time but they have two nice facilities.
Our tax dollars at work, providing an income for unqualified people to perform a job, that they don't seem to be able to do.
Good luck Julie, I hope Scarlet makes a full recovery.
I'm shocked that sale barns still even take horses in GA. Sale barns in our area in Texas won't even let you unload a horse anymore because they know that it won't bring enough to pay their commission and yardage. Unless it's a special consignment horse sale, they don't sell them. The only sale I know of that will still sell almost anything is Muleshoe... Now people just turn them out, or give them away (the slaughter buyers don't pay anything because of the cost of shipping them to the feedlots down south or across the border). Slaughter in the U.S. was a sad situation, but unfortunately it seems it was a "necessary evil". Now unwanted horses may face a longer, harsher, and definately more cruel end than a simple bullet.
Guys, thanks so much for your generosity and support. You are so appreciated. Julie's recieved $130 in donations so far and she is most grateful.
Everyones generosity is wonderful, I want to thank everyone who has been able to give. I am at a loss for words.
I will thank each of you individually as I get a chance to reply, but I wanted those who have given to know how much this means to me.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,
Julie and Skinny Little Scarlet
Wallaby of Chaos said:
Slaughter in the U.S. was a sad situation, but unfortunately it seems it was a "necessary evil". Now unwanted horses may face a longer, harsher, and definately more cruel end than a simple bullet.
----------------------
At the time horse slaughter was banned in the US, slaughterhouses did not use a bullet to kill the horses, but rather used a captive bolt gun that shoots a metal rod into the animal and then retracts. Many animals had to be 'bolted' 2, 3, 4 times before going down. It is far from a humane end. Regardless of how you feel about slaughter, captive bolt is a pretty horrible way to go.
http://www.fund4horses.org/pdf/Captive_Bolt_Violates_HSA_of_1958.pdf
That's correct. My best friend studied animal science at ABAC in south Georgia. She had to visit a slaughter house and yes they bolt the animals between the eyes for reasons I will not discuss.
I know they used a captive bolt, that's a pretty standard practice among slaughter plants for any larger animal. And I understand that no way is totally fool proof. What I'm getting at is there is a worse fate waiting for unwanted horses now, be it starving or abandoned, or having their spinal cord slashed south of the border. At least Scarlet it one of the lucky few to be rescued by qualified hands.
Thx for the input there Suzan- there must have been a misunderstanding between what I asked and the answer I got....
Its a rough situation. Dear Husband and I are thinking about a trip to a sale in Hazlehurst. Anyone got any info on that? (In all honesty, I am worried about going. We have limited land here, and I KNOW we will both want to bring home ALL the skinny horses...)
I rescued a mare in similar condition last March, she was also pregnant, and her yearling and 2 year old were still nursing off her, so I'm told by the hauler that picked her up.
www.chestnuthilldesigns.com/Jen.htm
I looked at these pictures and I'm at a loss for words.I really think someone has to publish these pictures and some of the other auction pictures where the general public can see what is going on.The general public abhors animal cruelty. This misery breaks my heart,and to think someone was riding this poor horse. Until I started to look at this site,I never knew anyone could get away with this abuse without being prosecuted,really. I'm telling everyone I know,and most of these people are not "horse people" but just love animals.If they refuse to believe this happens,I'll refer them to this site. I HATE people who make$$$ on misery.They are just plain evil.
OMG PLEASE
I am begging you to write a little something for The Green Monkey, the $16,000,000 2 year old.
He is now standing somewhere in Ocala for a $5,000 stud fee. They figure they can get $5,000 stud fee for him because "everyone wants to breed to the most expensive horse in the world"
Did I mention he injured his butt when he was working out as a 2yo and didn't race until last september? Oh and he raced 3 times and has a doughnut in the win section.
LOL and now he's a breeding stallion! That's not funny actually as if there aren't enough thoroughbreds out there who struggle racing and then don't make it anywhere else =(
http://drf.com/news/article/92215.html
http://horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=71728
http://horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=68985
http://horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=40044
Don't you think he looks more like a quarter horse then a thoroughbred?
OMG PLEASE
I am begging you to write a little something for The Green Monkey, the $16,000,000 2 year old.
He is now standing somewhere in Ocala for a $5,000 stud fee. They figure they can get $5,000 stud fee for him because "everyone wants to breed to the most expensive horse in the world"
Did I mention he injured his butt when he was working out as a 2yo and didn't race until last september? Oh and he raced 3 times and has a doughnut in the win section.
LOL and now he's a breeding stallion! That's not funny actually as if there aren't enough thoroughbreds out there who struggle racing and then don't make it anywhere else =(
http://drf.com/news/article/92215.html
http://horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=71728
http://horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=68985
http://horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=40044
Don't you think he looks more like a quarter horse then a thoroughbred?
I'm sorry,I forgot to say"Good Job,Julie!You are a really good person with a soul.I could not go to an auction,I know I'm not strong enough.I would go with my checkbook and just buy everything,even if some had to be euthanized right then and there, and I would just cry my eyes out.
Don't get all excited thinking the Georgia USDA is going to trip all over itself making this or any other animal cruelty case. The fact is they exist in the world of apathy; a bunch of good ole boy clock punchers that can't get off their fat asses unless their building is on fire. Yeah, I've dealt with them before. Fuck'tards, every one of them. Think Buford T. Justice from Smokey and The Bandit, and there ya go, except even Jackie Gleason had charm. They have job security beyond anything you or I could comprehend, so there is no incentive to do anything but drawl sympathetically and do nothing.
The USDA has looked the other way for years about slaughter violations. Starving them doesn't get much of a rise out them, either.
And, going with the time-tested stereotype, I'm going to go out on limb and guess you'll find that last jackass owner in church on Sunday. (The greasy hillbilly fuck.)
Oh my gosh! I sure wish I had the money to send because I would. I know it sounds like I am trying to back out, but give me a break, I am a broke college student. lol
Not-so-off-topic: I think we are in a position to bring on a rescue horse. My main question is, is there someone out there in Fuglyland who's in northern Colorado, who wouldn't mind coaching me at doing the auction thing? Or pointing me in another direction re: rescue? You can reach me at:
drummergirl64@gmail.com
Thanks!
I think people like Mike Green need to be shot and then shot again. I mean shot in both knees and then both elbows, letting them suffer. And then pluck out every hair on their bodies ( and I mean the short and curly ones)until they beg for mercy... then remind them of the mercy they showed for Horses like the one Julie rescued. Julie you are securing your places in heaven.
I think we should send Mr. Green a big huge beautiful gift basket with fancy wrapping paper and pretty ribbon filled with Scarlet's poo and a note that says "enjoy the road apples ass cake!"
NashobasKey91 said...
Don't you think he looks more like a quarter horse then a thoroughbred?
--------------------------
He looks like a pretty typical thoroughbred to me
As my family always says, "An eye for an eye." We think that's the perfect solution for any case of animal neglect/abuse.
Julie, my roommate is a UGA vet student and my trainer's husband is also a vet at the school. I'll ask tomorrow (since it's after 1 AM...) if the University might consider a reduced fee for Scarlet's echo.
Oh dear gawd. It makes me feel better about the local fugly (for a while) when I see stuff like this. Well, until we see stuff like this locally (and we do, far too often). I've volunteered for a local rescue for almost a decade, mostly fostering horses in rehabilitation and even though I rarely see the worst ones (those go to the heated veterinary clinic or are euthanized right away), it is very, very sad. And people wonder why there is a Fugly Horse of the Day!!! It's not anti-breeding, it's ANTI-IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDING!
cutnjump - we have problems with our local animal control too. They always blame the code for being too wimpy but when it was rewritten to be more enforcible, they just refuse to answer calls (until recently at least for me). When a local rescue group gets involved, they tend to answer calls (sometimes begrudgingly but more willingly of late) but then they don't even issue a citation for OBVIOUS neglect. *sigh* So where are my tax dollars going? And what about the extra $5M they now want from us to build a new shelter? It's not that they don't need the shelter, but until they do the job I'm already paying them to do, I am not supporting one more dime to them. Especially when their officials LIE in public proceedings. One of my friends caught them in the lie and called them on it right there in front of everyone! Oh yeah, good stuff.
WOO HOO! Way to go Julie & good for the auctioneer! I'm surprised they even let them on the property with a horse in this condition (let alone under a rider). *shiver*
Fugly - EXCELLENT comment about spending the time and effort and money on planning CAREFUL breedings with a purpose and using the BEST, MOST APPROPRIATE STUD you can afford. A great horse can't produce greatness without a great partner (or a miracle and we all know how often THOSE happen)!
Stumbled upon this.
Thought Case 2 was very interesting considering Scarlett has many of the same syptoms. I realise she is under the care of a vet but these things can still go unnoticed (sp?)
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1480796&pageindex=1
Sorry I don't know how to turn link into a tiny url.
Nayds
Poor horse :-(
Love that you name people!
Poor, poor mare - but at least now she'll be loved and cared for...
Poor mare...but at least she is now one of the lucky ones.....how many others are not so lucky as to be rescued?
I work for a Sheriff's Office here in Georgia and Suzan is correct on how the seizing works. We (the Sheriff's Office) can't do anything to seize to animals. On top of that we are a very underfunded, rural county that has no animal control laws or ordinances. So the pet population here is astounding.
As for the horses. It has been bad. Just a few months ago, we had a case that we took warrants on the individual for neglecting a huge lot of ponies. The State DID take those ponies. I would say there was at least 50 of them. Some were dead, some had to be put to sleep, a few had halters grown into their heads, there was one that even had a broken leg that was still standing. Very bad to say the least. All were in pitiful shape.
I have no idea what the State has exactly done with all those ponies, but I do know they took them.
Ranging into other animals, we had a huge case over the weekend that included dogs. The man is still here in jail at the time. None of the neighbors even bothered to report him. Deputies just happened to be doing ride throughs and notice it. There were 25-35 dogs on the property. All were starving, some with no water, some chained or roped up, some running loose. Some of those that were chained or roped, had leads so short that they could barely stand. There was no food on the property for them. There were at least 5 dead dogs, one that was half rotting, one was even thrown on top of a storage building and left.
We couldn't take them because we have no where to go but the animal rescue that is here stepped and we had the guy sign the dogs over to them. From what I can tell on it, it is just a bad case of hoarding. No breed in particular but still really bad for all of them.
Thank you for bringing this kind of thing to our attention.
I don't think people realize what can happen to their good horse when she goes down the road.
I hope some of the former owners step up and help her.
Keep preaching about training them all, I believe every horse can have a job if humans don't let it down. The fugliest horse in the world can be a beloved pet if it's well trained.
Thanks, God Bless you and your efforts here.
Mike is a big time horse trader. He makes a lot of money doing what he does too. Mostly because he doesn't give a hoot. He only lives a few miles from me...maybe I'll go have a peek at his place. Haven't been by in a while. I know my gelding was purchased from the McWhirters (big time QH breeders in Nebraska) by him, and then he traded him to the guy who I purchased him from. My poor guy was half starved from Mike before the other guy got him. Not to mention, he was man handled so much that he's JUST now after almost two years getting back to trusting humans...men in particular. It's a sad, sad state of stupidity that man lives in. *shaking head*
qhmom7,
Please do take a drive by. I don't understand how letting his horses nearly starve to death before you flip it can be a profitable business venture for him... clearly something is very much not right with Mr. Mike Green. I would not be surprised if this guy's property is full of starving horses who need attention before the next auction.
"we have problems with our local animal control too. They always blame the code for being too wimpy but when it was rewritten to be more enforcible, they just refuse to answer calls...And what about the extra $5M they now want from us to build a new shelter? It's not that they don't need the shelter, but until they do the job I'm already paying them to do, I am not supporting one more dime to them."
Oh, I absolutely agree. My local AC is pathetic - and here I delete a whole rant about them, which was healing just to type out but a huge digression. Suffice it to say, I agree with not funding lazy, whiney, waste-of-space local officials. Maybe you can't make them do their jobs and maybe you can't blow them out of their cushy sinecures with an atomic bomb, but you can starve them.
Michelle - thanks for posting the story and pictures about Jen (your rescue appy). Good work! How is she doing now? Is her foal a curly?
I think we all know what would have happened to Scarlett if she had been seized and impounded.She wouldn't have a chance.The powers that be aren't about to put money for medical intervention into seized animals. Are these poor horses better off in Ma. then Ga.? I don't know.But here in Ma. we are paying taxes for just about anything.I personally have heard of one large starvation case and I think the animal rescue league took some of them in. Someone I know fostered one of these horses,and after lots of groceries,the horse was gorgeous.He was adopted shortly thereafter.I just really wonder how many of these horror stories are hidden in someone's backyard or left outside in a field to forage all winter.We are always seeing dog and cat stories on the news,hoarders.
My guess is the Mike Green's of the world depend on their "pastures" to feed these horses. I'm sure they don't get individualized attention, he is, after all, a horse trader - he doesn't care. Well we've had a bad drought here and there isn't any grass - period. Does that provoke people like this to supplement with hay? Of course not,it would affect the bottom line too bad. I'm sure they just do what they've always done and leave them out to pasture, even if there isn't any. A lot of horses are fed the same as cows and if their owners are poor farmers (not horse traders - just farmers) who can't afford round bales and grain, they are crap out of luck. By time the farm owners decide to move the animals, they are already thin. Maybe in the past the practice of being cash poor yet feeding horses with your 200 acre farm worked because there was grass and the animals were at least fed by the land. I called on a herd of cows last summer that were emaciated (sp?) and in plain view of the road. This was a farm that has always had fat happy cows because they have always had grass. The problem is they didn't sell the animals before they got so thin, and they didn't supplement with hay. The drought IS causing people to dump their livestock which is flooding the market, at least here in Georgia. Hay is high as a kite - we paid $11 bucks a bale for coastal burmuda last summer. I think was the last bit of coastal in metro Atlanta. It's just a bad situation. At one point recently, metro Atlanta itself had only a 40 day supply of drinking water left. Crazy right? It's just really bad across the board. Maybe we'll get more rain here this year and the suffering of a lot of these horses will ease up a little at least where food is concerned.
We are lucky here that Illinois does have strong humane laws and the sherrif's department can take animals.
They brought one up to the arena to be housed last summer.
I haven't been able to keep up with the threads much this week.
Been a very tiring week so far I have been photographing a five day horse training clinic with
Tommie Turvey.
It is interesting and a lot fun but I'll never be able to keep up with all the action. I'll have some really serious editing to do when this is over.
Then you have the hay suppliers like ours who have decided to get in on the hay shortage action and leave good regular customers high and dry for hay. Our hay supplier sold our hay out from under us I'm sure at a jacked-up price. He saw an opportunity to make some money. Next year we prepay and get a receipt. We can't store large quantities of hay so he always holds back what we need and we either pick it up or he delivers it (have always done this). Last weekend we called to arrange delivery of round bales and he's completely sold out. WTF??? Not what you want to hear when you're down to 11 square bales for 4 horses. I'm still pissed off. Now we have to scramble around between 2 other suppliers until first cut to keep our buckies eating. It's like not having groceries in the house, makes me really nervous.
It is a testament to the soul and spirit of the horse that this beaten down mare, on the doorstep of death, could and would endure another human climbing on her back to ride her in what must have been a terrifying demonstration.
I'm always reminded of that children's book "The Giving Tree" in situations like this - these magnificent beings will give and give and give until there is nothing left of them.
Bless you Julie; you are truly a kind and generous soul.
OT, I don't care if an adult stands on a horse, but a little kid standing on a horse?!
http://horsetopia.horse-for-
sale.org/classifieds/ad267969
That seems completely unsafe to me.
I can imagine the growers in non drought areas are selling for higher prices in our area. A ton hay was imported from out of state last year. We experienced severe price gouging (sp?) last summer. Hay that the local growers sell goes FAST, and they too are cashing in. This is another reason I mentioned donations for the mare. She lives in a drought stricken area and we are going to have to pay sky rocket high hay prices to feed her, in addition to monthly board and everything else. We have enough round bales to get us through the end of March but we will have to buy more hay after that. Who knows what the prices will be. Scarlet is one more mouth to feed but we figure she's worth it. If you are interested in helping, paypal donations to help Scarlett to bhbulldogs@yahoo.com
There is no relationship between neglect and the end of slaughter. We were seeing just as much neglect 20 years ago when slaughter was legal and slaughter prices were high. You know why it SEEMS there is so much now? THE INTERNET. Who would have known about this mare except the folks at Julie's barn and at the sale, twenty years ago?
Slaughter doesn't cure neglect and abuse. It's like saying, let's cure child abuse by killing children who have abusive parents. Look, they're out of their misery now! Come on...it's punishing the victim. That's never the right answer.
>>For those of you who have done multiple rescues, what would you say is the average $ amount to rehab a horse from say a BCS of 2, back to full health, barring any huge medical problems?<<
The last one I did cost about $6 a day in feed/supplements plus teeth ($250). She had no other issues, but the feed cost hasn't decreased much as she is an old mare with bad teeth and mush is a way of life for her.
And hay's like anything else - when you have a greater demand than supply, up goes the price.
I highly recommend anyone with land think about growing their own hay. That's the situation I had for years and I wish I hadn't even sold that farm. There's nothing like having your OWN good hay that you pay NOTHING for (the neighbor did all the work, he took half, we got half). If you have the acreage, grow your own - the prices aren't going to go down.
UPDATE
I just got off the phone with the UGA Vet School / Large Animal and they said that a cardiac work-up for the mare including an echocardiogram will cost between $350 - $550. Once again, thanks to everyone who is helping with this cause, you are so appreciated.
As a result of these comments about Georgia AC, I deeply urge you all to copy your letters and send them to those higher-up in the government. Residents, write your senators and congressmen, tell them there is no way you will vote for them if they let this go. This is going to be a blanket campaign to the whole country.
Hi Lauren_mi_eventer -- Jen is doing very well (I need to update her page, its pouring rain here, so maybe I can get that done today). She is in decent good weight now, but still has a lot of muscle to build, and bulking up to do, which is the goal for spring. To start her with some very light in-hand work, then some very light riding (walking) and teaching her to move in frame, rather than inverted, which it appears is how she was ridden. Her back is hollowed and sore, and her under neck muscle is overdeveloped, although her filly is similar and obviously never ridden, so I beleive it is partly conformation, most likely the TWH in her.
Talk about BYB, the filly, Ana (yes, she is Curly, as is her momma, Jen) has an interesting background. Jen is Curly, Appy & TWH, and the sire is Curly, QH, Paint. Interesting combo, eh? ::shaking head:: That TWH is rather prepotent, though.
Jen is starting to learn that she is allowed to have an opinion, and is beginning to come out of her shell, so we're starting to deal with some emotional issues. She's trying very hard, and once she stopped bracing and tensing up everytime I approach her, she is now learning that she doesn't need to throw her head up and bug her eyes out of her head anytime I put a halter on or off her. Her first reaction is still up, but then she will sigh and relax when she remembers that nothing bad will happen.
Its going to be a long road for this girl, she has been neglected and abused since birth, and she's now 10. But she's smart, and I own her full sister, so I know there is a great temperament under there.
bless her heart! she is very related to my mare on the bottom.
bless her heart! she is very related to my mare on the bottom.
Hoofin it North-
I have friends in Palmer, not too far away from Wasilla. They live behind the fairgrounds. I won't name names here, but one is into dogs and showing and the other has horses for her daughter.
Here at work we also have customers in Anchorage. I think one of their employees lives in Wasilla.
I loved it up there when we visited. If it wasn't so damn cold I would have moved in a heartbeat. There are a few others here from the land of hte midnight sun.
i sent my e mail just now.
Senator Saxby Chambliss
(R- GA)
202-224-3521
202-224-0103 http://chambliss.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?
Senator Johnny Isakson (R- GA)
202-224-3643
202-228-0724 http://isakson.senate.gov/contact.cfm
Representative Jim Marshall (D - 08)
202-225-6531
202-225-3013 http://www.house.gov/writerep/
Georgia Governor Sonny Purdue
(copy and paste)
http://gov.georgia.gov/00/gov/contact_us/0,2657,78006749_94820188,00.html#
Address:
The Office of the Governor
State of Georgia
203 State Capitol
Atlanta, Georgia 30334
Phone:
404-656-1776
Fax:
404-657-7332
Senator Saxby Chambliss
(R- GA)
202-224-3521
202-224-0103 http://chambliss.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?
Senator Johnny Isakson (R- GA)
202-224-3643
202-228-0724 http://isakson.senate.gov/contact.cfm
Representative Jim Marshall (D - 08)
202-225-6531
202-225-3013 http://www.house.gov/writerep/
Georgia Governor Sonny Purdue
(copy and paste)
http://gov.georgia.gov/00/gov/contact_us/0,2657,78006749_94820188,00.html#
Address:
The Office of the Governor
State of Georgia
203 State Capitol
Atlanta, Georgia 30334
Phone:
404-656-1776
Fax:
404-657-7332
I hate to say this but this is happening 100 fold across the country daily. Idiots, asshats, the oblivious, people falling upon hard times no fault of their own, whatever - horses are starving in droves and are being sent to slaughter, usually ending up with the killer. Moreso now, than ever.
Here in northern CA grass hay stands at $20 (TWENTY FREAKING DOLLARS) per bale. I'm starting to fear for my ability to care for my own two, but I will no matter what, somehow.
Hay growers are being seduced away from hay farming by gov't subsidies handed out to those who change over to the growth of (Monsanto's GMO) crops for biofuel, like soy and corn. King corn.
So, horses are shit out of luck.
They are screwed.
Kudos to those who are the saints, who do what they can one horse at a time.
It IS the time that we all contact OUR gov't to tell them they need to step in here and help people who are trying to help the horses... as much as we all hate slaughter, the end of it is seeing the sickening end by starvation and neglect raise daily.
We need to act.
I see that today, yet again, there is a Greek National Strike. People in the streets, protesting the way the gov't is screwing with their pension plans. The country is SHUT DOWN and will be until perhaps Saturday. THESE people know what to do and how to do it, they see results and their gov't is terrified of their power - and what do we do?
We whine on a blog.
Lets go.
I really don't think Mr. Green and others of his ilk are EVER going to change their ways as long as the $$$ are rolling in.Seems to me they consider these horses to be product and nothing more.Calling them cruel and heartless isn't going to bother them. It makes me feel better.But I don't think they will be ashamed(they should be) but they are not made that way.Someone wrote(on The slaughter topic)that some people consider horses to be livestock,others ,valued pets and companions,and the two groups will never agree.Sadly,this seems to be the case.
Some dealers are worse than others...
Most tend to be seedy and shady.
There is a guy that comes to the small auctions near where I live. He's a major wheeler and dealer of horses. Goes to the auctions in the south, buys them up cheap and then typically hauls them via a stock trailer to the big sales.
Most go for meat.
However, if he ends up with young horses, horses that have been worked over and had it rough(emaciated, obviously abused)...or obviously quality horses, he will haul them to the small auctions where no kill buyers go.. and sell them at a loss.
I'm not sure what his intentions are with that.
Back to the Pony Express Auction that this mare was purchased at. I don't blame the auctioneer. He seemed care about the horses to an extent. I saw him, after the sale, back in the barn fussing at idiots for doing idiot horse stuff, on behalf of the horses. It's my understanding that he is the new owner of the The Pony Express auction as well. I don't know his name but he does seem to have more of a heart than others. He has recently taken over this auction. Its a good thing he lets horses like this come through or else they wouldn't be occasionally rescued - AT ALL
I can't wait to see some beautiful AFTER photos of this mare. Please post when she is recuperated.
Sadly there are way too many of these.... and there is just no excuse for it...
I bet if one were to put a post on craigs list saying..if you can't pay for feed your horse and need to re home it please call me I will take them in .people would still starve the horses.
This mare reminds me of a mare I took in from a family member looked just like this...beautiful arabian mare papered as well very nicely put together as well..for Val who is with a happy family who cares for her...and Scarlet I emailed Julie..
I was actually at that auction but did not stay but for the first few horses and did not see her come through. BUT I did buy an APHA colt from Mr. Green a few years ago and just happen to have an address and phone number for Mr. Green and since he forged the mare owners signature on the APHA certificate of registration for my colt and therefore making him unregisterable (long story) I harbor no warm fuzzies for him. If you would like this information, please feel free to email me at pntdsld@hotmail.com and I will gladly share it with you.
Some economic facts for people to consider:
the top 10% of the people in the USA control 71% of the wealth (the top 1% control 38% of the wealth)
the middle 50% of the people in the USA control 28% of the wealth
The lowest 40% of the people in the USA control 1% of the wealth (and pay 3.3% of the taxes!)
What this says to me is that 40% of the people in the USA really can't afford horses. They just can't. A good portion of the middle 50% can't afford horses either, because their 28% is not divided evenly among them--the people who are at the 45% point in the scale are making barely more than the people in the lowest 40%.
The chances of someone moving up out of that lowest 40%? Way, way less than 1% during their lifetime. The chances of someone moving down out of that middle 50%? Close to 10% in their lifetime.
The median household income in the USA for 2006 was just over $48K. That is household income from every income earning member of the household. That means that half of the approximately 113,146,000 households in the USA make less than $48K per year. The bottom 20% are making less than $23K per year.
The households that fall between 40% and 60% are making from $36K to $57K per year.
All of the above are pre-tax dollars, by the way.
Now that all but about two people have scrolled past this post, here's my conclusions: it's nearly impossible for anyone in the lower 60% of the population to afford a horse in the USA without making significant economic sacrifices. A horse would become a major budget item, surpassed only by the house and vehicle(s).
What happens if one of the people in those households has a major illness or injury? To be blunt, they are so, so screwed. Even with full health insurance coverage (something that 47 million USAns do not enjoy and another 18 million are grossly underinsured), there are many associated costs that are not covered by insurance.
The single most frequent cause of bankruptcy in the USA is medical bills and costs associated with medical care that is not covered by insurance.
Now let me veer off into another direction. A few weeks ago, there was a FHOTD blog entry that inspired a bunch of people to write about how their horses are their mental health and/or happiness. I think that's totally understandable.
But what happens when, well, something happens? There's a terrible number of people in this country who are living on a knife edge and it only takes a tiny push for them to fall from "making it okay with some constraints" into downright poverty.
I think all of the above is related to why there are so many horses in desperate need, neglected and/or abused.
And here's a last,. cheerful thought: the economy is not going to improve in the next year or the next two years. Fuel prices will fluctuate a little but not enough to make a significant difference. There are going to be more people losing their homes. There are going to be more people sliding into poverty.
You can count on it.
Julie!
Bravo! Please extend that to the Auction person should you meet them again!
We are seeing more and more of these cases JUST on this blog...imagine how many pass under the "Fugly Doppler Radar"
I am still hopeful to take on such as this once I am in a financially stable place to do it properly.
We can all do our part to ensure those that DO get found get help.
As for what would have happened had this mare been seized? Well, I can imagine that she'd have been euth'd....considering where she has been I'll bet she would have felt relief at the very least.
THIS is a better scenerio for her...even if she is to far gone, and doesn't make a recovery, she will at least have known that someone loved her, and cared enough.
Bless ALL of you who find them, save them and re-hab them....
grainne dhu - good post. I have land but no money to spare. This I know. People want to know why I am not rescuing horses - after all, I have a big, empty field. Duh - no money to FEED said horses, let alone rehab. them and hold onto them until they sell (or even find a GOOD FREE HOME) in this depressed market. Hay is WAY too spendy here, especially in the winter, for me to spend $520/ton to feed some rescues. I simply can't afford it and reaching out my hand in any way besides volunteering time and space would just end *all of us* in a worse position. Sometimes you have to know what you can't do! ;)
This is a topic we've hashed over in some other groups many, many times.
How many of her former owners "almost" did the right thing? Maybe they didn't give a rat's ass where the horse went, but then again, maybe they thought typing "TO GOOD HOME ONLY" in the ad text was enough.
I have "placed" in approved homes more horses than I have ever sold. Not being much into the selling market as a business, maybe I'm out of line. But I do know without a doubt there are people who could offer me asking price and then some and they would NEVER get one of mine.
The only thing that stands between any horse and being in this position is its responsible owner.
This whole rescuing of neglected animals and how daunting it can be at times - feels like there's so many to rescue and help and not enough time, money and land to do it. Reminds me of a story about starfish. A man was walking along a beach and from far away he could see another person picking up something from the sand and throwing it back into the ocean. As he got closer he saw that the person was throwing stranded starfish back in the sea. HE said, "There's got to be hundreds of them on the sand. How can what you're doing possibly make any difference?" The person picked up one more and tossed it toward the waves. "Made a difference to that one," she said.
What we do and think and feel DOES make a difference - one horse, one dog, one cat one person at a time.
Bless you Julie for helping out that mare. I sent you some $ to help out.
Vickie
I have emailed and requested that the Animal Protection Dept. of the GA Ag office investigate this as a neglect case. I attached the pictures of Scarlet from your post, Fugs.
Sending Julie a small PayPal donation.
Good work, good luck, and let's keep it up!!
P.S.
Finally figured out how to attach an avatar! (Computer wizard that I am!) This is Merlin, my rescue boy. Fugly, but beloved.
Grainne - great post.
You're right and this stuff has been on my mind a lot. I make decent money for a single person (apparently I make more than the median household in America), but I am constantly broke due to horse expenses.
The fact is, you get involved in rescue, and I don't care how responsible you try to be, you tend to end up with too many. You get returns, adoptions fall through, or you have to repo due to care. And you get the surprise vet bills.
A friend of mine has been harping on me about the fact that I pay the vet, yet I haven't seen a doctor or a dentist in over eight years myself - and she's right.
Most of mine are older, so my goal in the future is going to be no more acquisitions. Just because something dies does not mean I have to rescue something new. I need to just stop, but it is very hard to do.
The fear of my horse ending up like Scarlett is one reason my gelding will forever have a home with me. I bought him when he was 6mos old from a byb. He'll be 13 in May. Sure, I could find better riding horses and prettier horses but what will happen to Jasper? At least one horse in this world has a life-long home, God willing. It's just the right thing to do for me. I think Julie (Scarlett's owner) is the same way, her mare that recently passed away was 40+ and she lived with Julie her entire life. I'm sue I'll eventually purchase another horse in addition to Jasper but I will be very, very, careful and picky about the horse I buy, because I know that the next horse I buy will most likely have a life long home with me as well. As they say on HGTV, "Start at Home".
fuglyhorseoftheday wrote: You're right and this stuff has been on my mind a lot. I make decent money for a single person (apparently I make more than the median household in America), but I am constantly broke due to horse expenses.
Scary thought, isn't it? You're not living a profligate, jet set lifestyle but when you get right down to it, you can barely afford the things that make you happiest.
The fact is, you get involved in rescue, and I don't care how responsible you try to be, you tend to end up with too many. You get returns, adoptions fall through, or you have to repo due to care. And you get the surprise vet bills.
Which is why, much as I would really love to, I haven't gotten horses yet. I have five adequately fenced acres, I have a barn but I don't have the income and I know it. As long as everything went well, we would all be happy as can be. But the instant anything went wrong, decisions would have to be made that would involved deciding who wouldn't be eating for the next few months.
When I was younger, I could live that way. I just can't do it any more (for one thing, I'm diabetic--the last time I forgot to eat, I seizured).
A friend of mine has been harping on me about the fact that I pay the vet, yet I haven't seen a doctor or a dentist in over eight years myself - and she's right.
Again, that was me not so long ago. My animals have never done without anything but me? I didn't have any medical care or dental care for nearly twenty years. I was lucky in one way--a bunch of fillings crumbled within a two year period but I had enough tooth left in each case that they could just be replaced. Who knew that fillings only last 20-30 years?!
I did crack one molar, had to have a root canal and a crown. The pain was incredible. If someone had suggested that the only way to feel better would be to amputate everything above the neck, I would have handed them the axe. I had to get the thing fixed because I literally could not stand the pain.
Going without medical or dental care is fine when a person is younger. But everything gets older at the same rate and eventually lack of maintenance care does catch up with you.
Most of mine are older, so my goal in the future is going to be no more acquisitions. Just because something dies does not mean I have to rescue something new. I need to just stop, but it is very hard to do.
And that is where I end up. No one can live without some form of pleasure, some tiny luxury in their life. Helping horses is your luxury and I feel certain that it brings you more in emotional rewards than it costs you in cash or you wouldn't do it.
But there are more and more people in the USA who cannot really afford the things that make life worth living. It's one thing to live on less than $2/day when you're doing what you love in life but it's quite another thing to live on $2/day and have nothing but another day alive to show for it.
There's a despair that sets in when someone can only exist and not enjoy.
And I think that is a good part of the problem with neglected horses. When people can't really and truly afford any of the things that bring them pleasure, they start to make bad decisions. They can't really afford a horse but they need something to make their life worth living and if nothing goes wrong, it will all be okay.
People who really can't afford to get a horse do so anyway because they're living on hope. They've started to feel like if they can't have one thing that makes them feel good, there is no point to living.
Since we're wired as human beings to keep on hoping, well... the inevitable happens.
If I didn't have my dogs and cats (which, truth be told, I can barely afford), I'd have two horses in my field right now.
As an amateur historian, I can't help but look back at one of the previous superpowers: classical Rome. Roman society became more stratified, the rich became ever richer and more people kept sliding into poverty until they got to the point where supporting the government was no longer a priority for many people.
OK, I was at the Pony Express Sale Sat night ( my birthday BTW!) and did not see this poor girl while I was there. I never stay to watch the horses, too heartbreaking. I am thoroughly convinced they kept her hidden till the last second. I did see a cute as hell pony mare 3 days older than dirt, not a tooth in her head & every bone in her body showing. That's when I had to leave.
Great job, Julie, there need to be more out there like you.
I am in GA- have it on good authority (from a police officer) that they have NO WHERE TO PUT siezed horses. Nowhere. He (and his department) are under orders to NOT sieze any livestock. I have been working on checking this info as well... so far have not been able to turn up anything different...
There are 2 places the horses go, but they have to be seized by the state, and there's a real huge stink too about good horse owners being harassed while the idiots go unscathed.
I used to have 5 Arabian mares & my Morab Gelding- I had State banging on my door with papers in hand for seizure one early morning! I asked on what grounds were they wanting to seize my horses- they said they had complaints of me starving & abusing my horses! Mind you, they just showed up & never made any type of inspection before obtaining their seizure warrent!
Long drawn out court case later, I never had to turn my horses over to them, the truth comes out in an off hand sort of way- my Morab gelding had been a hot ticket in his younger years & was still a nice little guy for light stuff. I had been offered by one of the "Big Contributors" to GERL to purchase him for her daughter. I had expalined he was not a childs horse, despite his small size, and he was not for sale. She made up all kinds of false accusations & since she was buddies with the girl in charge of the Equine Division at the state Dept- Melinda Woliver, thye thought they could just take my horses!
I am thoroughly convinced the State Dept. is crooked as anything. You can bet the inspector wasn't there.
Here's another example of bad people happening to good horses:
http://www.tbredforum.com/
phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=22742&sid
=d044c9a63b04570c4ece711d97b8476c
I'm breaking the link up so hopefully it will all post. Just copy and paste and take out the spaces. The stallions taken have all recovered I believe. Not sure about the worst one, he had to be boarded locally for 3-4 weeks before his owners could ship him from AR to FL he was so bad.
I see this a lot, person gets sick and STOPS taking care of the animals BUT doesn't bother to make other arrangements for them. In this case above it was even more outrageous that they had horses belonging to many other people and all they had to do was CALL them the minutes things started to get out of hand.
Being sick is no excuse, having a fatal illness is no excuse. The only thing that is an excuse is dropping dead and nobody knows it but even THAT is no excuse because if you live alone and COULD drop dead you should have someone checking on you or expecting an email or call from you every day (and have a note in your wallet: In an emergency call XXXXX to care for my animals).
The Dam of SWAPS starved to death in a dirt field many years ago, she was 29 and deserved a peaceful end, not starving to death along with a bunch of others.
I still have the picture of Wild Syn by the way, before AR and after AR. And he wasn't even the worst one.
Grainne Dhu, I am one of the two people who read your entire comment. :) An interesting perspective indeed. Perhaps you and Fugly might collaborate on a post concerning this topic and containing these details, and your perspective would then be considered more widely. I believe it should be.
The community in which we formerly lived had a dog limit per household. For a long time, my rule was that I would always keep one "opening" available, should a truly wonderful dog come along needing rescue. At one point, he did come along, and I did take him in.
Where we live now there is no such limit, yet I am limited by finances and my own energy level, which is noticeably lower than it was 10 years ago. While my kids (at home) are fairly mature and somewhat self-sufficient and so do not require vast amounts of my energy, like younger kids do, it is necessary to spare enough energy to maintain (ugh) a relatively clean and orderly household (in addition to the barn, which is a joy to clean!), etc....
Recently a local horse facility went belly-up, and their horses, some of whom are in need of rescue/upgrade, have been thrown onto the market. One in particular is a horse my daughter has loved for years now, but we won't be getting him, as he would be one too many for us to manage....
It would be interesting for all of us to discuss, here, how we arrive at our limits in terms of rescue, as most of us here appear to HAVE limits and attempt to do our best to stay afloat within them.
Jeeze. This WOULD have been a good blog IF you had laid off all the past owners. Did it ever occur to you that there's a big, huge world out there that could care less about showing? We can't afford the horses that come from big-name show winners, we just want a nicely bred horse that we can go sorting on, or work our ranch, or take our kids for a trail ride. So lay off the horses that don't have lots of points; they aren't "nothings". And in your own words, this is a NICE mare, breeding quality, and your slamming the people who bred to her? After 19 years, some "asshat" starved her so everyone who ever owned the horse is fair game? And the reason for that is because the babies are "nobodies"? Interesting point of view. Completely out of touch with a HUGE segment of horse owners. And OMG! Lemme run this through spell check real quick before posting!
Liri said...
NashobasKey91 said...
Don't you think he looks more like a quarter horse then a thoroughbred?
--------------------------
He looks like a pretty typical thoroughbred to me
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I don't think so at all! He has such a square head!
He's so thick and low to the ground. Plus, his claim to fame besides being $16million is that he ran a SUPER fast 2 furlong (quarter of a mile) work out which is what impressed the people who bought him.
Liri said...
NashobasKey91 said...
Don't you think he looks more like a quarter horse then a thoroughbred?
--------------------------
He looks like a pretty typical thoroughbred to me
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I don't think so at all! He has such a square head!
He's so thick and low to the ground. Plus, his claim to fame besides being $16million is that he ran a SUPER fast 2 furlong (quarter of a mile) work out which is what impressed the people who bought him.
Is there a blog online that one can post info about horses in need? Rather - starving?
Passing through Hollister, CA a few days ago I got bit lost, missed a turn and ended up out in the middle of nowhere... faced by 2 fields of about 5 horses each. All starving. Skeletal. One looked ready to die at any moment, just standing with that vacant look in his eye. I walked around and saw NO signs of any hay having been fed - there would be signs, even w/ hungry horses eating every last bite. A few of the horses clamored about and I felt terrible that I had nothing for them - I wasn't exactly prepared for this. The others ignored me and seemed intent upon eating the mud, and teeniest bits of green that are just starting to show. Anything to ease the pain.
These guys NEED HELP -
***They are at the corner of Hwy 156 and San Felipe in Hollister. I 411'd the local Animal Control and was told that they had sent someone out there to check on the horses TWO WEEKS AGO. But hadn't done follow up.
I asked them to please get out there - now - and do something for these poor creatures... they told me they would.
I had to continue on.
I called them yesterday (I live 250 miles away) to follow up - just got vox mail but left a message telling the tale and asking that they kindly call me back and let me know what they had done about the horses - or I was going to write a letter to their local paper about their ineptitude, considering they had initiated something on this case two weeks earlier but obviously had done no follow up. Horses can gain an awful lot of weight quickly when they are fed properly, as those of us who do or have done equine rescue will attest. These horses hadn't seen food in some time.
Haven't heard back. Letter is being written.
Someone in Hollister.... please check it out. Please help.
And if anyone else knows where I can further post this info, please do let me know.
"The Dam of SWAPS starved to death in a dirt field many years ago, she was 29 and deserved a peaceful end, not starving to death along with a bunch of others."
I thought I was the only one who remembered this awful story. It was covered in a national magazine at the time; she starved to death with dozens of other horses on some ranch in Nevada or something; I believe her name was Iron Reward.
summerhorse wrote: I see this a lot, person gets sick and STOPS taking care of the animals BUT doesn't bother to make other arrangements for them.
Since it does happen more than once, I think it's helpful to look at the reasons why it happens, in order to help keep it from happening again.
I'm not making excuses for the couple involved in what sounded like a horrific case. There is no excuse. But there are, I believe, reasons why things like that happen and if the reasons can be understood, they can be addressed before such things happen.
I'll summarize the case you linked for convenience. The owner had a farm full of starving horses; some he owned outright, others were leased. Until relatively recently, I'm guessing as recently as three years ago from the story, he was a reputable, responsible farm owner. He leased a stallion named Wild Syn for three years. When the lease was up, the owner called to arrange re-possession of the horse. The farm owner waffled, said he wanted to keep the stallion another year, had mares lined up, etc. Stallion owner became suspicious, drove down there and discovered the farm full of starving and dead horses.
The owner denies that there was anything wrong but says he was diagnosed with bone cancer last spring. The couple have been charged and their criminal case is apparently wending its way through the legal system.
In this case above it was even more outrageous that they had horses belonging to many other people and all they had to do was CALL them the minutes things started to get out of hand.
I think that is part of the reason the horses got into that condition. Bone cancer is extremely painful (it's like the gold standard of suffering) and all of the drugs used to treat it have cognitive side effects.
When I was hospitalized (for necrotizing fasciitis), I had hallucinations due to the mixture of drugs I was on (over twenty, at one point). I learned that not all hallucinations can be identified as hallucinations by the person having them. The ones where I saw all sorts of animals were pretty easy to identify; I was reasonably sure that a major research and teaching facility would not have wild animals roaming the halls with no one seeming to notice.
But other hallucinations were so realistic and reasonable under the circumstances that I did not know I was hallucinating. At one point, I hallucinated a nurse coming into my room and encouraging me to drink a litre of water every four hours. It wasn't until I apologized to a different nurse for being unable to do so that I learned I'd hallucinated!
So right off the bat, I have to wonder if the owner of the farm was in any state to make decisions based on his own perceptions. When a person is hallucinating, that is what they perceive! A hallucination can feel as real as you feel right now reading this on your computer screen.
A second possible factor is the whole emotional process that happens after people are diagnosed with cancer (particularly highly aggressive and essentially untreatable cancers). It's well known, it's been studied, the whole emotional process is no secret.
Basically, people run through the stages of grief, complicated by hope. Until they have reached the stage of acceptance, they are emotionally able to do anything that indicates a loss of hope. Calling for help could symbolize to the patient (and his wife) that he was giving up, that he really was going to die within the easily foreseeable future. Not calling for help could be used as a prop for treating the diagnosis as though it were a temporary inconvenience.
After all, if you break a toe, you swear a little, hop around, get it bandaged and then most people get on with their lives. They move a little slower, they might be more careful about where they walk, but they're essentially able to function. It's more of an inconvenience than a catastrophe. A lot of people newly diagnosed with cancer desperately want their illness to be similar. So desperately that they are sometimes willing to do desperate things to maintain the illusion.
There is also the whole slippage factor. By which I mean that the standard of care for the horses probably didn't change radically from one day to the next, it probably slipped over a matter of weeks or months.
I know that every now and then I've fed my animals late. To hear them tell it, it is a disaster of major proportions. Every now and then their water bowls go dry before I notice it. There are some weeks when I don't get any grooming done (not that the animals mind that!). Those are all just normal minor mistakes of every day life. Who reading this blog has never found an empty water bucket or been half an hour late delivering the groceries? Who has ever looked at the horse who had crusted mud from the deliriously enjoyable roll in the mud hole and decided to tackle it the next day instead of instantly?
What isn't normal, though, is when such things become an every day occurrence. Then when every meal is delivered late, one day a meal gets skipped but it doesn't seem like such a big deal. The water buckets stop getting scrubbed out regularly and then they are often empty before they are filled again.
And as the slide continues, the delusion remains that things will be better the next day or the next week, that this was just a temporary lapse of standards but it will all be fixed soon.
Being sick is no excuse, having a fatal illness is no excuse. The only thing that is an excuse is dropping dead and nobody knows it but even THAT is no excuse because if you live alone and COULD drop dead you should have someone checking on you or expecting an email or call from you every day (and have a note in your wallet: In an emergency call XXXXX to care for my animals).
All of which is undeniably true and yet it fails to happen in a significant number of cases. Why does it fail to happen?
In addition to the reasons above, I think there's another reason. In the USA it is remarkably difficult to get help without having your whole life head for hell sans even the hand basket.
In this case, the owner of the farm had been in business for twenty years. In order to get substantial help, he'd have to give up pretty much everything he worked for and achieved. How many people would be willing to lease a stallion to someone they knew had bone cancer? Who would want to make any sort of long term commitment to someone who has such a serious diagnosis?
People who have been diagnosed with the more serious types of cancer are already making emotional sacrifices: they are giving up their dreams of what they might be achieving in five, ten, fifteen years; they are facing the loss of all their loved ones (from the patient's point of view, death means losing everyone you ever loved); they are giving up many of the pleasures of every day life; they are already experiencing discomfort and disruption of their lives.
To make a further sacrifice, at a time when so much is already being sacrificed, is more than some people can handle.
Also, it's easy for the slide phenomenon I described above to happen with email or telephone contacts. Things get busy, you forget to call or email until late. It happens more and more often and the person receiving the calls or emails doesn't really stop to ask themselves why it's happening, they just accept it.
Or the person receiving the check up call or emails says they'll take action but when it gets right down to it, they don't. I know of a case where a woman met a man via the internet and went to meet him. She was cautious enough to arrange safe calls at pre-set intervals.
But the person who she made the arrangement with turned out to be an indecisive idiot. Several of the pre-arranged safety calls didn't happen and instead of taking action, this person dithered around for a day or so, then asked a mutual acquaintance if he thought there was anything to worry about.
Fortunately, he did think there was something to worry about and he is a lawyer, so knows a lot about how law enforcement works. It's a good thing he did--it turns out that this woman had gone to meet John Robinson, Sr, who had already murdered several women he'd met via the internet.
If it had been left up to the original person who was supposed to be receiving the safety calls, this woman would no doubt have joined his other victims in the barrels in his storage facility.
So there are, I believe, many reasons why things like this happen and precious few options for addressing those reasons. Without a way to address the causes, such things will continue to happen.
From my Scarlett,
Thank you Julie for what you did for your Scarlet. Best wishes for a full recovery.
Eyeswideopen - every single one of the owners Fugly called out allowed this mare to slip one tiny rung further away from help. Call me crazy, but I will bet you $100 the horse dealer did not get this mare in totally fantastic condition and just gave up on her. The owner before him clearly did not give enough of a damn to place her somewhere safe. The owner before that one did not ensure she would not get sold on again.
This is a well-bred mare who should not have been bred to a bunch of nothing stallions. With her health problems (some of which are NOT new), she probably shouldn't have been bred much at all. Instead, people made the wrong choice to breed her again and again. I have no clue why - you argue they needed a "regular" horse, but from spending five minutes here you can get a "regular" horse for $500, easy - way cheaper than breeding a mare.
Every one of her owners need to be called out for what happened to her. They need to look at themselves and her, and see what they allowed to happen.
Emilie, what a bunch of crap. Just because YOU have never heard of those stallions; just because they haven't been doing the show circuit, doesn't mean they aren't nice stallions. The fact is, you don't know ANYTHING about those stallions, your stating suppositions as thought they are fact. Maybe they are shit, but maybe they were nice. "Newsflash"!!! There's a lot of really nice horses out there who never won a blue ribbon! OMG!!! That's because there's a whole lot of people who like really nice horses but could give a rats ass about showing! OMG!
Now, as far as "every single one of those owners letting that mare slip through the cracks, that is such a laughable idea I can hardly stand it! First of all, in Fug's own words, "Clueless Florida breeder sold her to Asshat Green in May 2005". Green had the horse two to three years. You think that's not enough time to let a horse go to shit? Do you still feel safe betting $100?
You guys are killing me! You're so ready to jump on "The whole worlds evil" bandwagon, you don't even stop and think.
Yeah, this Greene guy is a real ass, and this mare has certainly been blessed by Julie, but for God's sake, stop and think! You guys don't need to fall on everything Fugly posts like a pack of dogs smelling blood.
Um, yeah. I still don't think, despite how many years he had her, Green was the only one to starve her. Some dumbass gave her to him. That person could not have been the world's most upstanding owner.
Why is it that when people disagree, the only response is "OMG you're all so blindly following?" I read Fugly's litany of owners and came to my own conclusion that they are largely fucktards.
Here's the thing. Someone had that mare. They sold her and didn't much care if she got sold on, or didn't do any digging to find her once she was. The next person didn't care either, nor the next. Finally, someone sold her to an outfit in Florida, which doesn't seem legit, and they sold her to a scumbag. Not a single goddamn one of them thought that mare was worth enough to ensure she didn't get sold up the river. And I know that, because if I ever sell a horse, the hoops that will have to be jumped through to have it will be immense.
And yeah, there are "really nice horses" out there that haven't shown. I've known a lot of them. For the most part, they were geldings. The stallions I have seen with no show record and touted as "really nice"? Mediocre horses bred from mediocre horses. A well-bred mare cannot be counted on to pull that up from the DNA muck. Especially not a well-bred mare that is so fucked up in the back end she shouldn't have been bred in the first place.
So someone sold her to X, who sold her to Y, who sold her to Z. Welcome to the real world. There's a whole industry out there, and they aren't looking at horses as pets. If you don't like that fine, but to have the pollyanna attitude that they all should keep track of every horse forever, grow up! And what do you mean "if" you ever sell a horse? Ahhhh, there's nothing like having no experience combined with unrelenting opinion.
by emelie:
"And yeah, there are "really nice horses" out there that haven't shown. I've known a lot of them. For the most part, they were geldings. The stallions I have seen with no show record and touted as "really nice"? Mediocre horses bred from mediocre horses."
Well isn't that something? Of all the horses you know without a show record, the stallions are mediocre, but the geldings are really nice. Interesting.
by emelie:
"A well-bred mare cannot be counted on to pull that up from the DNA muck. Especially not a well-bred mare that is so fucked up in the back end she shouldn't have been bred in the first place."
Well is that so? You just can't count on those mares, can you. We probably shouldn't breed mares at all, being that they are so unreliable. And that DNA muck REALLY gets thick when the horse is lame! You can NEVER count on the good stuff finding it's way through! Genetics 101 by emel.
It's funny how you were copying my name and yet couldn't spell it correctly.
And yeah, the geldings are nice because they have no chance of siring something. The stallions are mediocre because, as a stallion, they should be breeding quality, but they aren't.
And yes. I said "if" I sell a horse because I believe horses should not be treated as disposables. I'm sorry you think it's acceptable to treat them as the industry does and throw them out when they outlive their usefulness.
eleanore - any word about the horses?
Emel said:
"It's funny how you were copying my name and yet couldn't spell it correctly."
Newsflash: It's because I didn't care how your name is spelled. Oh, and you can bet that even Fugs uses spell check. People aren't perfect, I know that's hard to wrap your brain around. It sure does make you feel superior to point out the imperfections in others, doesn't it! When your a good speller, you can spell big words like "asshat"!!!
Emel said:
"And yeah, the geldings are nice because they have no chance of siring something. The stallions are mediocre because, as a stallion, they should be breeding quality, but they aren't."
Got it. Balls change everything. Balls take a horse from "nice" to "mediocre". Silly me. I was looking at conformation and temperment.
Emel said:
"And yes. I said "if" I sell a horse because I believe horses should not be treated as disposables. I'm sorry you think it's acceptable to treat them as the industry does and throw them out when they outlive their usefulness."
Well, you sound like your 13. Live a little. It's funny how things change when you grow up. And if you are grown up, just wait. That curve balls coming.
Here's a real mind blower for ya! What if some of those past owners lost their job? What if they had a choice to either sell their horses, or breed them again and hope for the best? They did the smart thing and sold, and YOU think their bad for that!
What if they got cancer?
Had an accident?
Had a few bad crops?
Got a divorce?
Lost their best stallion?
Discovered that their teenage daughter was with child?
Lost the lease?
You really don't know WTF happened to any of these people, so get a dose of reality in your thought processes!
Furthermore, two years is plenty of time for a horse to go from good to bad, but hey, it's definitely more fun to ASSUME that all those other people were bad too. I totally get it. What a bunch of asshats!!!
I really don't have anything else to say except: a) I'm an adult, kthx b) My name is RIGHT ABOVE MY COMMENTS c) the general opinion of this blog is, if you can't plan for the future (meaning those OMG SURPRISES like illness that happen to everyone), you shouldn't have an expensive hobby, and d) methinks someone's protesting too much. Did someone send you a nasty email about selling Scarlet up the river?
Your an adult? More proof that age doesn't equal maturity.
I don't care how you spell your name; I must be a redneck.
If life gets hard and I have to sell a horse; the best I can do is make sure it goes to a good home. After that, *shrug* what can I do? Perhaps,if my life is doing better and I actually know where a horse is 10 years down the line, I can do something, otherwise, there's nothing I can do. If you think you can plan better than that, your nothing but a foolish girl who has never had anything major to struggle through yet.
And yeah, ya got me. Your a real Dick Tracy. She used to be my horse. Lord almighty! I can't believe you figured that out! I should have known better than to point out the severly flawed thinking involved here! *slaps forehead*
Ya know, if you have a really good cause, it doesn't help to start carrying on like someone with no brains. When you start making a bunch of bad points, the good points sort of get lost. Emotion will usually get you in trouble if you don't curb it with some rational thinking.
I really don't have anything else to say except: a) I'm an adult, kthx b) My name is RIGHT ABOVE MY COMMENTS c) the general opinion of this blog is, if you can't plan for the future (meaning those OMG SURPRISES like illness that happen to everyone), you shouldn't have an expensive hobby, and d) methinks someone's protesting too much. Did someone send you a nasty email about selling Scarlet up the river?
February 15, 2008 10:59 AM
Eyeswideopen:
If she used to be your horse before Mr.Green acquired her, this is not your fault by any stretch of the imagination. Horses are seen by many as "high ticket items" and they do get traded a lot - period. They just do. It's unfortunate for them but it's a fact that will never change. I know plenty of good horse people that have sold horses, it just happens. Too many they are not life long pets, they are a sport, an industry, and a hobby. I personally couldn't buy and sell horses, I get too attached. Everyone is different and they are not wrong for being different.
Now.... 50 questions for you :)
You must be relieved that she's now in good care. What did she look like when you had her?
What is her personality like when she's in good shape?
Was she ridden much?
Did she have any problems then that you know of?
Any information you can provide will be wonderful.
To keep track of horses you sold is unrealistic and possibly heartbreaking. Legally what can you do if you find something you disagree with two or three owners down the line? Probably nothing, when you sell a horse you sign away your rights unless you want to spend THOUSANDS to go battle it out in court, most people can't afford that. Scarlet is proof you can't count on the authorities to take action either, so then what do you do after you find the animal in bad shape? Steal her back? Go to jail? Report her and watch them do nothing? What if you yourself are financially struggling at that time - you can't buy her back. It just isn't realistic.
Michelle, I'm sorry, I was being snarky to Emilie for her ridiculous assertion. This was never my horse. I do wish you all the luck in the world with her, it sounds like she's in good hands. Big hugs to you for what your doing, I hope there is a bright future for this horse.
Anyone interested in keeping up with Scarlet's recovery go to her special blog at www.hanksqdtoo.com We plan on posting photos as she progresses as well as giving updates.
www.hanksqdtoo.com
Thanks!
And Michelle, your last post was dead on. If you need to sell a horse, and your lucky enough to sell to someone you know, you may have a chance at keeping tabs on that horse. Truth is though, our friends usually have their own horses and don't need ours. Horses are usually sold to strangers, who certainly don't want to keep tabs with an overprotective past owner. I've seen that happen a couple of times, and what started out as a nice thing, turned ugly. Interference, resentment, and hard feelings usually crop up, and then the old owner is the LAST person that the new owner would sell to. People are kooky; it's a pretty consistant theme.
I sold a horse once with first rights to buy back. I kept tabs on the horse, (never interfered)and one day he was gone. His new owner sold him to a horse dealer who sold him to "a great home where he's being ridden every day by a little girl". Yeah, I'll buy that swamp land...
Eyeswideopen, if you're the previous owner, perhaps you'd like to comment on what exactly you were breeding her for? I can't figure out any rhyme, reason or pattern to it. What discipline do you compete in? What were you seeking to produce?
*slaps forehead again*
I know nothing about this mare. I'm just a regular reader of your blog, well, I used to be. Any more, the ugliness is overwhelmingly distasteful.
What's the point of making teenage girls feel bad about their horse training?
What's the point of ridiculing other rescues that are at least doing some good?
What's the point of humiliating people for their lack of education, especially when they are only victims of the environment to which they're born?
When I first discovered your blog, your frankness was refreshing; now you are just cruel and ugly. A big group of us used to read you all the time, now we can't stomach you. It's disappointing because you are nothing more than a car wreck now. People look, but it turns their stomach. Reading your board is nothing more than a morbid fascination. You probably had a chance to change my views and many others on breeding, but not anymore. Now I only find myself insulating against your arrogance.
Why I'll bet your real forgiving to the learning process that you've gone through, but nobody else gets that chance, right? They're all supposed to live up to some unrealistic veiwpoint of yours? Can you remember what it was like for you 20 years ago? How would you have felt to be the victim of someone like you? Would you have slapped your forehead and suddenly have seen the clear path to all knowledge? No, you would have licked your wounds and defended your actions.
What a waste you are making of a really good opportunity to attract and educate. What a fucking shame. Glimpses of ugly are always refreshing; it makes you human. You my dear, have let that go completely to your head. You revel in it my dear... this is YOUR moment in the sun.
so which featured rescue is good?
..."SMALL CHANCE OF SUCCESS, OR CERTAINTY OF DEATH?"
Gimlee, Lord of the Rings.
Yeah, some of them are pretty bad, but some of them are just stupid and goofy.
Do you feel good about harrassing good hearted people who are trying? Do you wonder how they feel at night? After all, they may have done SOME good. They may have saved a mare just like the one featured in this thread, buy hey, they ain't as classy as Fugs, so fair game I guess.
It's amazingly easy to criticize, and oh so fun. But a line is being crossed here and ya'all know it.
Carolyn D - The problem I hear, is that when someone reports him, he makes the horses disappear. Now,...I've seen most of the horses in the pasture during summer and spring and most are pretty fat and sassy looking. He does have a few broodmares located around the area (he leases pastures), and some of them look to be pretty good, but a few are looking really bad too. His place is right on the highway so I'm guessing he puts the newer horses with weight out there for people to see, and the others are hidden around the property (he's got wooded areas), and in the barn. He's an ass...pure and simple. He doesn't care about what people think of him, and he doesn't care what happens to the horses he trades or buys/sells.
so which rescue here is good?
Let's just take the latest:
And you're a RESCUE??? (http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/MI542.html)
This rescue had:
"Brud Mayor only.. We have her papers but we have never registered her. She throws wonderful colts and is a wonderful mother(red is one of her colts) but her will not be riden. She roles.. The right person with enough patience and a gentle heart with her may beable to change this. But a strong headed, hard handed person will not change this instead it will make her worse and she will roll.
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7012521"
This is mainly a rescue for dogs and cats. They take in the occassional horse. They aren't horse people. So WTF??? They can't spell? Seriously! They might not be the perfect rescue, and you may find some fault with them (I didn't but I didn't look hard), but come on! "Brud Mayor" seems to be a striking blow to their character! We ought to see if we can close them down, huh! Fun fun fun!!!
I'm not wasting my time going further back. If you disagree with my comment, then disregard it. But lets also remember things like purple saddles and funny clothes and rookie two point positions! Cause that's a real riot! You got those girls good! They deserved it!!! They shouldn't even be allowed NEAR horses!
Um, what's up with the picture where they lift her tail? :-S
To keep up with Scarlet's progress visit her site at www.hanksqdtoo.com, we posted new pics today.
Oh gosh, just for fun, another featured rescue...
http://moonwindsrescue.com/
While it's easy to slam this rescue if your holding her up to dressage queen or polo standards, and I'm sure there are things that could be done better, but considering that everyone has a learning curve, if it were your decision, would you shut her down? Would you demand that she not operate until she meets certain standards, and if so, what would they be?
We could insist that she not run a rescue if she is breeding ANYTHING.
We could insist that she not give lessons unless she can pass a level 3 dressage test.
We can insist that she not give lessons to anyone who is not willing to commit to 2 years of twice weekly lessons.
We could insist that she not post ANY pictures of students that are not in PERFECT form! Really, the nerve!
Oh! And we certainly can't allow her to have a rescue if she believes in Jeesuuze!
Yes indeedy! This is a really bad egg here! She's probably screwing up all kinds of horses! Probably killed a few kids too! As a matter of fact, Fugs should do a recap on this rescue because I don't think she took a big enough beating!
Oh, and I totally realize that there are some valid things wrong with this rescue. If she is indeed selling horses on a first come, first serve basis, that's wrong. But there are better ways to make that point without ripping someone to shreds.
But ya'all know that already, don't you.
The Mike Greene's of the world deserve this crap, so go snort up a big blast of vicks to get the smell of blood out of your nostrils and get back on track. Stop tearing innocent people to shreds.
I'd just like to comment on the "never sell a horse" philosophy that many strive for and achieve.
When my husband left me, he cleaned out the checking (my paycheck was deposited the day before), savings, and freezer. He tied up all the retirement accounts. He took the truck. I was, except for the money in my purse and in the ashtray of my car, broke. We had three kids and a marriage everyone thought was perfect. Three horses and three cats (all easily affordable for US) were the icing on the cake.
I immediately had to worry about how to feed 3 kids, 3 horses, 3 cats, put gas in my car so I could get to work. Do any of you think I was happy to sell my kids' horses? I couldn't feed them. My kids needed fed, too. I didn't plan for divorce or the long drawn out process that precedes it. These were well taken care of, BROKE, gentle, used by beginner children horses, albeit GRADE. I that when I got on my feet financially, it would be difficult to get horses like those again, but I couldn't hang on to them out of selfishness, and let them and my kids go hungry (and yes, I mean hungry). There was no "assistance" for us, because the value of the truck HE took was too high.
Sometimes people have to sell horses. Some horses are not a good fit (I've sold 2 because of that and they went to great homes where they were a great fit). Some horses aren't ready to retire and are happier being in a new home teaching someone else how to ride, event, etc.
Those of us who have sold horses out of necessity do not need the extra guilt your holier than thou attitudes place upon us. One of my kids never got back into riding because I couldn't get him a horse he trusted as much as the one I had to sell. Twelve years later, he keeps telling me "it's okay", but it will never be OKAY.
Bottom line: YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT DISASTER AWAITS YOU. I HAD A MILLION DOLLARS AND COULDN'T TOUCH IT (We all like it when "rich" people take a hit) Life deals the cards and you play your hand. May your hand always be a winner and you never have to sell a horse to keep it from being hungry and to feed your kids.
Sorry about the poor grammar, missed words, etc. Momentary emotional meltdown. All better now.
Well, some should realize the full situation before attacking the DOA too. A lot of horse people are clueless to the fact that the last horse slaughterhouses were shut down last year. If you supported that, shame on you because you supported more neglect, starvation, and cruelty as opposed to death. A longtime trainer and horse owner, I'm the last one that wants to see a horse slaughtered, but even worse, seeing one neglected.
However, there are now excessive numbers of horses floating around out there that have nowhere to go. Rescues are overflowing, funding is non-existent. That combined with the drought, exorbitant hay prices (when you can find someone to sell it to you) and, agreeing with you, irresponsible backyard breeders, our horse population is in dire straights and in a mess. I have friends in the department, both in South Carolina and in Georgia. They're doing the best they can. People are opening gates and letting horses go everyday, and claiming "that's not my horse, never saw it before". Quite simply put, more and more frequently, there just is no where to even send these horses anymore. It will probably take 20 years or better for this mess to really start straightening itself out. But until then, we'll all just have to do the best we can. Animal Rights Activists shut the slaughterhouses down, flooded the markets, the jackasses in the senate trying to win brownie points approved the bill, and you can bet your butt now that their not too eager to fund the mess they left in it's wake. The Department of Agriculture has it's hands tied, they just don't have excessive amounts of money to be dipping into.
I'm just trying to awaken understanding to the gravity of what you've just seen. The article spoke a lot about papers and bloodline. That is pretty much a thing of the past, unless you have something spectacular. I can take you to any sale barn in a 4 state radius and help you buy a papered horse for $50.
Wake up, this isn't the first horse, and certainly won't be the last.
I'm glad Mr Green at least brought her to the barn, as he obviously couldn't care for her anymore. At least she's being cared for now. There are a lot more out there who aren't so lucky. Sometimes even the best intentioned people run into problems and things happen to the animals in the aftermath. If you all really want to help, start migrating to sale barns and taking in your own rescue cases. God knows I've bought plenty of rescues through barns, and I still own every one of them. Even still, the time may come someday where I'd have to get rid of them. Would you condemn me for feeding my children over my horses? I dislike the way the owners were all listed and labeled. Who are you to judge and condemn people you know nothing about, or their circumstances, other than the breeding aspect of course. Why they sold her is really none of your damn business.
Stick with the point. She was in a bad situation, she was rescued. She's one of thousands. No matter how much you scream, it's not going to get any better anytime soon.
The best you can do is dig into your own pockets, or open up a stall in your barn.
By the way, I know everyone at Pony Express. I used to go there every weekend when I lived in that area. You're going to see a lot come through that barn, just like you'll see come through every barn. Lighten up. If that inspector would have "done his job", she'd have been euthanized by now. You just don't seem to get it that there's no where for these horses to go. It's become like a dog and cat population, if no one claims them, or if they're in too bad a shape, they're put down now.
Stop preaching, start educating, like I do. I don't attack backyard breeders when I meet them, where will that get you? I educate, calmly, friendly, gently. Most of them have no idea of the overall picture. Just as a lot of you seem to have missed out on it too.
Don't get mad, educate yourself, go do some research. Before you judge, walk a mile in their shoes.
P.S. just a note to add, I am in NO WAY downing Julie. As I said, I've rescued and rehabbed many horses, and my hats off to her. Glad she was able to step in and give a good mare the care she deserves. I'm just trying to educate some of the radical comments.
Also, another person that commented was correct, mostly all the sells at Pony Express are traders. I said I knew everyone there, didn't say I liked them all ;-) They always ride their horses through, no matter what condition, trying to get a little higher price for them. Most of the traders would never be convicted of abuse because they turn the horses so quick. That's what they do, buy, sell, trade, and right now I'm sure they're taking in all the horses people want to give them and reselling them. As I said earlier, just be happy these horses are finding new homes and being cared for.
8 out of 10 horses sold through most auctions though are sold through the traders, who usually haven't owned them for more than a few weeks. So once again I say, don't always pass snap judgements. The injustices aren't going to change because there just isn't enough to change it fast enough. The best you can all do is get involved yourselves and, as I said, do the best you can.
Ok, I'm done now. And I'm sure a lot of you will have plenty to say about what I've written, but that's ok. That's why we live in the good Ole' USA.
And to the redneck hater, better watch your comments down south, you might end up with a pretty patch of kudzu in your front yard ;-) LOL
Ending slaughter did NOT "cause" the glut in the horse market... By the slaughter houses' own records, only 10% of horses processed are old, injured, sick, or otherwise "unusable." These old and sick horses were rarely going to slaughter before, so why cry and moan about it now? Slaughter houses don't want old skinny horses... Just like beef consumers, people that eat horse meat want young, tender flesh. The only thing old skinny cows are good for is ground beef, pet food, and zoo meat. Horses are STILL being slaughtered in the US for zoo meat (they haven't been used for pet food in a long time). And horses are STILL being slaughtered in Canada and Mexico for human consumption, in record numbers. If you look at slaughter numbers from before the Texas and Illinois plant closings and now, they really aren't that far off. In 2006, 105,000 horses were slaughtered in the USA, roughly 2,000 a week. Just last month, about 1,000 horses a week have gone to Mexico for slaughter. The USDA estimates that 35,000 horses were sent to Canada for slaughter in 2007, that's nearly 700 horses a week on average. Between the two, we're looking at a minimum of 1,700 American hoses going to slaughter every week. So, to argue that shutting down the US slaughter plants has caused irreparable harm to the horse industry and a huge glut in horse numbers is just flat out false.
The real reason that we are seeing a glut in the horse market is because of two factors: 1. the overall US economy is down and 2. breeders haven't slowed down much! When the US economy goes down, luxury item purchases go down too. Horses are most certainly a luxury item here in the USA, at least in most parts. They are only used as working animals on a small number of farms and ranches. 95% of the horses owned out there are pleasure/recreation al/show animals or companion animals. When your pet eats 20-30 lbs of a food a DAY, you start to wonder how your budget might improve without that feed bill... Also, gas prices have gone up, which hurts our already depressed economy. It has made feed more expensive, and the droughts in certain parts of the US has made hay more expensive too.
Since our economy has slowly but steadily gone down hill after/since 9-11, horse breeders have stuck their heads in the sand. They kept on breeding, either hoping things would get better next year, or totally clueless to the market. The AQHA boasts over 144,000 Quarter Horse foals being born last year! Where are all those babies going?? At least the Thoroughbred industry is promoting rescue, retirement, and re-homing efforts, and only put out about 34,000 foals last year. They seem to have acknowledged the fact that the horse market cannot sustain the production numbers it could pre-9/11.
And yes, I donated $75 to this horse's care, as I do many others.
Since Scarlet has come to live at my barn, I have been reading a ton of articles about the horse market and what is going on, and it is a really bad situation that is going to get worse.
First of all let me say that according to Scarlet's papers she wasn't "flipped", she was in her previous owners posession for the last FIVE years and she looks the way she does, she wasn't with him only few weeks. It looks like she was bred, and bred, and bred, and bred and of course STARVED. Anyone interested in keeping up with Scarlet's recovery can do so at www.hanksqdtoo.com.
Based on what I've been reading, the situation with the horse market out there is really bad and there are several contributing factors.
1)Forclosures - people are abandoning their animals left and right. If they have to choose between themselves, their families, or their animals - they are choosing themselves. Facing forclosure is a very gut wrenching traumatic situation, if you haven't been through it, don't judge. You are not your "normal" self when that happens. I have not been through it but a family member has, it was terrible. You become VERY desperate and do things you wouldn't normally do - like sell a horse at auction, etc.
2)Overbreeding
3)The drought and sky rocketing feed / hay prices - which I can totally relate to.
4)I hate to say it but yes, the slaughterhouses are gone. Our government plugged the "hole" of horses slipping into slaughter houses but did not have a "plan b". Now 100,000 plus horses are lingering around out there and it's going to get much worse, because they can, after all, live 30+ years. This year we may have 200k extra horses in the U.S. Next year it will be 300k plus, the next 400k+. What are we going to do????
To expect professional breeders and backyard breeders to stop breeding the damn horses isn't realistic. That's like expecting every dog owner in America to spay or nueter, it will NEVER happen.
Can you imagine what would happen if they suddenly outlawed dog pounds? I'm sorry, but dying of starvation and neglect is far worse than lethal injection.
The consequences of too many horses are many. A few are still going to slaughter in Mexico (scary as hell), and Canada. No joke, they are being dumped on public lands, especially in Kentucky. Feral herds are cropping up everywhere now, such as Kentucky and even in the Florida Everglades Swamp. The rescues are overwhelmed, the market has fallen out - you can't hardly sell them, some people are giving them away. Breeding is continuing, slaughter ended, and they are a lot more expensive to take care of. What is the answer, besides responsible breeding (it will never happen)? I am not for slaughter but what are the other options TODAY?
The reason I say responsible breeding will never happen is because there is a surplus of ignorant goobers out there (especially here in the south) that have a very low IQ, don't care about the horses, they want to be "cowboys" to impress their fellow goober friends, they think breeding is "cool". They aren't intelligent enough to appreciate what is going on in the world that exists beyond them. They themselves are continuing to breed so therefore it is hopeless. They have future generations to carry on their legacies. They are without question, "rednecks". They certainly have no concept of good conformation, quality horses, etc.
My prediction is it's going to get a lot worse before it get's better. When the situation begins getting media attention, maybe the government will figure out how to help correct this mess they've help create.
If Barbara's number of horses slaughtered in the US are indeed true, I still don't see what it has to do with what's going on in today's horse market. Those are old numbers; they no longer matter, those numbers were before our oncoming recession. I don't believe we've ever had so many excess horses. If I had to guess, and this is just speculation on my part, if all our slaughterhouses were open for business we be slaughtering a record number of horses. I have no facts to back this up, I only know what I see going on around me. I have 3 lovely fugly riding horses and one mediocre horse, I would be terrified to sell any of them in today's market. In fact one of my horses is no longer right for our family but I keep her anyway; keeping my eyes and ears open for a local lease.
Blogger michelle said...
The reason I say responsible breeding will never happen is because there is a surplus of ignorant goobers out there (especially here in the south) that have a very low IQ, don't care about the horses, they want to be "cowboys" to impress their fellow goober friends, they think breeding is "cool". They aren't intelligent enough to appreciate what is going on in the world that exists beyond them. They themselves are continuing to breed so therefore it is hopeless. They have future generations to carry on their legacies. They are without question, "rednecks". They certainly have no concept of good conformation, quality horses, etc.
February 18, 2008 4:17 AM
*tips invisible hat* you are right on the money.
FYI: The Pony Express Sale is this weekend. The tack is selling at 2:00, with the registered horses to follow, grade after that.
The Pony Express had another auction tonight. I did not attend, I was not feeling well.
I want to preface that I did not hear this first hand.
The auctioneer began by announcing that the "seller" of the skinny mare had been receiving death threats.
Although I agree with everything posted by Fugly about this mare, I want to say that I do not agree with nor condone someone threating another persons life.
Perhaps this is just more lies being told by the seller, I will never know.
All I know for certain is that Scarlett is now happy, well fed and loved.
Scarlett's Recovery Blog has been updated with comparison pictures.
Tell me what you think.
http://www.hanksqdtoo.com
Scarlett celebrated her birthday today.
I just wanted to share.
Her blog is also updated.
www.hanksqdtoo.com
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