For anyone who hasn't heard yet, Eight Belles - the filly entered in this year's Kentucky Derby - placed an impressive second.
Then she broke both ankles, hit the dirt and had to be immediately euthanized.
Yes, another stunningly horrific live-on-camera breakdown. I know everybody is going to want to discuss this. I'll give you my 2 cents worth first and then you can give yours.
I do not think racing is evil or cruel or any worse than most other equestrian disciplines.
However, I feel strongly that yearlings should not be ridden - no matter what the purpose. I don't care if it's a yearling who is going to be a racehorse, a yearling who is going to be a show horse, or a yearling who is going to be your pleasure horse. They are NOT READY to carry weight. I am absolutely convinced that riding them too early contributes to breakdowns in racing, as well as all of the 3 and 4 year olds with ringbone, navicular and arthritis that are quietly shuffled out the back door of Big Mister Pleasure Trainer's Barn and off to the auction they go without their papers.
That's not on TV though. I almost feel sorry for racing, it takes the lion's share of the badmouthing because it's so public. Someone needs to do a little research project and try to figure out how many of the get of any Big Name AQHA or APHA stud are alive, well, and sound at age 10. That's something I would love to read.
I will go so far as to say I believe riding a horse under 24 months of age should be illegal.
Do I think that Eight Belles' owners/trainer/jockey are greedy bastards who don't care what happened to her? No. I am sure they are miserable right now. I am sure they wanted nothing more for her than a nice retirement after this, raising her babies. However, they - and everybody else involved in racing - need to look at all the breakdowns and ask themselves how they can decrease these fatal events in the future. Boy, would I be impressed if they came out publicly and said they weren't going to ride yearlings anymore...that they were going to do as my friend does who has racehorses in SoCal and break them out as late 2's and race them at 3. If they would come out and say they learned from their mistake - running the crap out of a huge (17 hands, reportedly) baby who wasn't ready - I would totally respect that. I'd love it if they said, we don't care what everybody else does, we're not going to do it anymore.
I can dream, right?
373 comments:
I saw it happen.
I cried. And then immediately blew up, screaming at people at the top of my lungs.
I completely agree with you.
I don't think that she should've been raced. Period.
She was amazing, though.
RIP Eight Belles.<3
Amen, FHotD!
The emphasis needs to be less on the profit and more on both allowing these babies to grow and also breeding strength back into these horses.
It's so sad! I just heard about it. But I have to disagree with you, fugs, the owners HAD to know that they were putting their valuable horse at a huge risk by racing her that young. Maybe in light of these recent tragedies, some people will start to slow down and WAIT to race their horses.
R.I.P. Eight Belles. :(
Oh, I think they know about the risk. But they justify/rationalize. After all, everybody else does it, right? It's the nature of the industry. Blah blah.
I'd just love it if the light went on for someone. Not just them - I'd love it ANY big name race trainer came out and said, after seeing this tragedy and others like it, we will no longer ride yearlings. We will no longer race two year olds.
C'mon, somebody. Show me that you have a pair...buck the system. One of you could do it and you could start a trend. Show the world that the horses are more important to you than the money.
How sad, I was in tears. I was rooting for eight bells to win. I am not very knowledgable about racing, I do agree that they ride and race them way to early. let them grow up for gods sake. damn it anyway! senseless as all hell. RIP Eight Bells.
That was one of the saddest things I've ever seen, reminds me of Ruffian.
I had just read an interesting article in Equus a few days ago about predicting breakdowns. I wondered as I watched the pre-race show if any of the horses racing today had had the testing.
When I heard the filly was 17 hands at 3, I worried that she wasn't ready for the hard work. At least, I thought, she had only raced 4 times before the Derby. Then this happened.
I, too, would love it if they would stop training 2 yr olds. My OTTB injured her back racing. She only raced 4 times - 2 @ 2; 2 @ 3. Luckily she was slow and her back has healed.
I love the Triple Crown. I just wish it could be a series for 4 or 5 year olds.
I don't know why I watch these races every year just to have my heart ripped out. She was stunning.
I feel REAL bad for the trainer who was shown in the pre-derby features galloping the filly, talking to her during their morning gallop...cooing to her. Watching her keeping an ear to every word the older gent said.
As an ex-pony girl, there is nothing more heart-wrenching to see things like this happen. Especially to someone that considered their race horse more than just a racehorse.
One of the main reasons I'm an "EX" racetracker
Racing is a dying industry. If it doesn't do something to reduce the number of breakdowns, it's days are numbered. Nobody wants to take their kids to the track or watch a race on TV when it's pretty likely that at least one of the horses will break down over the course of the day.
The pedigrees of so many of these horses are RIDDLED with unsoundness issues. Until the industry steps up and starts fining owners/trainers for breakdowns; offers incentives for sound horses with long careers; and moves the emphasis from 2 and 3 y.o. races to races for older horses, it will only get worse.
Unfortunately, I think racing is so 'steeped in tradition' they cannot fathom changing longheld views and practices. The good old trainers that knew how to properly condition horses and keep them sound even when raced weekly are gone. The emphasis on soundness for frequent racing is gone, too.
I suppose the shit would hit the fan if they banned racing until horses were mature.
I live in Fresno,CA and there is a large racing stable in a nearby town (Sanger, CA) called Old English. They have some nice studs and they have nice horses by California standards. Nothing they have will probably ever make it to Kentucky to race.
They have an excellent training program. They start horses undersaddle as long 2 year olds (not by JC standards, by birthday). They give them the basics and then they turn them out for a full year and they start over. The trainer out there does a daily routine of checking every single leg on every single horse. At any sign of heat, discomfort, or irregularities that horse is put away and not ridden until she and the ranch vet say OK. I respect the barn and the trainer because most of the resells they have (made it to the track and didn't perform OR didn't make it to the races) make excellent riding horses. You'll see alot of their horses end up as polo horses, dressage mounts, and hunter-jumpers.
I purchased my TB mare from them after her first and last race. She has always been healthy, sound, and sane. She had a solid, fair start which is what all racehorses should get. I know not all racehorses get a fair start but futurity horses don't always get fair starts either. There are GOOD people in the racing industry but the BAD is always focused on.
Are you kidding!?!? Think about it for a second... THIS - Eight Belles and what happened to her - is the REASON why the TB industry pumps out so many babies!
It's a matter of odds. More babies on the ground, more in training, the better the odds that ONE will be great! So horribly sad and senseless.
Whaen I owned my appendix colt, I had a trainer all set to start him. Then, he squirted up and went through a HUGE monstrous growing spurt. He stay in the pasture an unbroke, unstarted obnoxious BIG colt until he was almost three and half. I wanted him to still be sound at 20.
I've got a baby TB on the ground right now. Though she is bred to race, she won't. And she will be started when she is a big obnxious three yr old IF she's ready.
Does anyone know what bones/structures were involved beside 'ankles'?
I play PonyIsland occasionally, and it's being talked about over there to. The sentiments are being echoed over there, pretty much.
And then I read this:
'There have been studies done on this. They've found it is better for the horses to run young. There is a higher proportion of break-downs in horses that did not run at 2. Stressing the bones allows for bone molding (the bones grow thinker in the areas with the most stress) which makes for sounder horses in the long run.
The trend towards fewer starts is adding to the problem.'
Um what?! Someone please tell me I'm misinterpreting something here ...
Oh and... I do not think that being a long 2 year old makes it OK for them to be started. I like starting my horses at really close or just past 3. But I also believe that it depends on the horse AND the horse's trainer. If the trainer can't assess the soundness of a horse's legs and if they are ready to be started, that person should not be starting horses. There really is no rush to get horses started.
I am with you FHOTD....let's face it....they are on some of these horses who are only 15 mos (technically) so that they can be ready for the two year old races. They should move the TB 'technical b'day' and make them all OLDER instead of younger.
It is a shame and sadly it will take the sport nearly dying, I think, for people to change it. You get people who are saying "Well KY DErby has ALWAYS been 3YOs" So change it. Make racing anything UNDER three incorrect, train them at 2.5 and race that first season at three and then run Derby at FOUR. Honestly, we can't say it would ahve saved E.B. but it could have given her a chance to mature.
I didn't see the actual breakdown and when I watched the race (on the website) knowing..I just wanted to beat the jockey...he was pushing her on and on even when they were eight lenghts behind and they weren't losing position to the third place horse. -SIGH-
How about predicting breakdowns by sire? (Thanks, Unbridled / Unbridled's Song.)
Or breeding for soundness and durability and four and five year-old seasons instead of precociousness?
I remember watching the match race with Ruffian. I thought something would change then. Nothing changed. I quit watching for along time. Then started watching again. One year watching the Breeders Cup, like 5 horses had to be euthanized. Quit watching again. Went to a Kentucky Derby party the year before Barbaro. Didn't make the Derby Barbaro was in....I've quit watching again. Glad I didn't see this one go down.
No they shouldn't run them so young. They shouldn't start reiners at 18mths. They shouldn't feed up halter babies, and blow their legs out. Futurities of any kind pretty much suck if you ask me. But no one wants to sit on their potential moneymaker. You miss out on the big money if your horse isn't going young....at least thats what they think.
I've never had disposable horses. I always figured, waiting an extra year here..buys me how much more time out the back door? How many more good, useable years do you get by waiting?
I was watching the Derby with a bunch of animal science people when Barbaro broke down. We nearly started crying,and were horrified. I don't think she was ready for the track, and the fucking greedy bastards better change this. If they don't change the age, they should start changing the standards. If she'd been racing on a softer track (like the one Arlington put in), would she still be in one piece? Perhaps...
Once I saw all of those youngsters being ridden up to the post, I didn't want to watch it. I had a bad feeling about it...
I remember Ruffian.
I cried for days.
I try not to pay attention to horse racing. It hurts too much.
Where's PETA when you need 'em? They may be a bit radical, but maybe if more non-horse people were made aware of the health hazards faced by race horses—let alone racing babies!—things would change?
Godspeed Eight Belles :(
I am just sick.
I had not watched racing since Ruffian broke down.
Then...I watched Barbaro
I said enough.
Today I said WOW a filly, I am tuning in to cheer her on...
Then what I found appalling were the NBC commentators who could care less, especially the asshat woman, blah blah blah, wanted to hear her own voice. No one cared.
How do you celebrate when this is happening.
I am sending JOE at TB FRIENDS a donation in the name of Eight Belles. I think it is a fitting way to honor her.
Oh, I have cried and screamed and cried some more. She wasn't ready, and she gave it her all, everything she had. They wasted her, wasted her talent because they were greedy bastards. Some days I am ashamed to be part of the human race.
Why can't people put the well being of their horses before the well being of their ego!!!!
My parents did not see the race, but when I called my mom and told her about it she said it was scary how much it reminded her of watching the race where Ruffian went down. She said the most horrific part was when you could see the whites of her eyes rolling and her rearing repeatedly while they tried to get her on the trailer in her air cast. Thank God they did not try to move Eight Belles. Rest in peace.
I have to add that as I watched the horses going to the post, I thought, nothing bad will happen, not just a few years after Barbaro. I felt "safe" watching the race.
I went upstairs after the race and cried my eyes out.
What a waste. What a tragedy.
Poor poor filly.
They showed her down on KHQ, but they did not try to talk to the owners/trainer etc. It was so hard to see the image of her down in the dirt, not moving, before the vets got there.
I watched the race and it was clear she was uncomfortable as she started the stretch run -- threw her head up, and tried to go outside, fighting her jockey.
In the footage of Big Brown crossing the finish line, you can see her forelegs in the background -- clearly hotfooting on them, and obviously not sound. She probably pulverized those poor fetlocks in the stretch run.
A 17 hand three year old should be JUST getting started under saddle, not have been in intensive training for 18 months.
I love TB's and I love watching them run -- Big Brown had me crying with the beauty of his stride and the sheer magnificent energy of his effort, before Eight Belles had me crying at the waste of it all and her phenomenal heart.
Accidents happen -- two horses had to be euthanized after crashing on course at Rolex this year. Horses crash playing in the pasture and have to be euthanized all the time.
Abuses happen in other discipines, too -- I've heard reining trainers MARVELING that a horse was all of FOUR and hadn't had to have its hocks injected...YET.
It's a matter of reasonable risk, and a matter of structuring competitive events to maximize the options for good horsemanship. There is a lot of discussion in the eventing world about the point at which cross country problems cease to be technical challenges and start being stupid risks (I'd say right after Beginner Novice for ME).
Personally I hate any kind of "futurity" system, as it provides incentive to rush horses into too-early training and ironically deprives a lot of the "futurity" winners of any "future" at all.
Perhaps expecting TB's to be --gasp -- FOUR before setting foot on a track would eliminate the incentive to breed 'em to break 'em -- if you have to feed them and care for them for that long befoe they start making you any money, it's best not to have too many.
I'd also be interested in the stats on breakdowns on synthetic surfaces vs. dirt vs. turf -- there's talk of running the Derby on synthetic next year.
17h filly on 3 yr old bones. By US, noted sire of unsound horses of all ages. Freakishly fast. 3 strikes.
I agree with Cj -precocity is a problem.
There have been intense scientific studies done by established, respected groups showing that bone modeling in a race horse is best done early - but there are good and bad ways to go about it. I'm not trying to argue or start a fight here...
More of the problem lies, I feel, in weanling, yearling and 2 yr old sales prep - it focuses on fast growth, overbulkring and working too FAST too SOON. Improper bone modeling. A horse raised properly, worked properly and conservatively, will be better off.
Horses in "olden times" used to be started just as early, but campaigned LATER. Same with the western futurity horses - heavy, adult work too early. The starting isn't the issue. IMO.
And don't be so hasty to get PETA involved.. they don't want you to have horses, either. Deworming is so unnatural, ya know :)
A perfect example of why I NEVER watch these big races - this seems to happen all too often.
When I heard, I went out and hugged my horse. :*(
Not being a follower of TB racing, I didn't know they run yearlings - that is sheer insanity!!
FFS - if I know better...certainly "professionals" should!!
There was an article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday about Native Dancer. All twenty horses in the Derby lineup were his descendants. The inbreeding which has occurred in the TB industry in the last few decades has produced seriously fast, yet seriously flawed horses.
Stressed in the article was how many of Native Dancer's offspring had soundness issues...bad feet and legs.
Last year, there was another article (sorry, I don't remember where I read it) which discussed the fact that no other racing nation has the same number of injuries to their TBs. Part of it is breeding, part of it is training, part of it is not trying to create the "superhorse" at the expense of soundness.
In the US, they breed fast to faster. They train them too young and run them too hard.
Here is Eight Belles' pedigree:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/eight+belles
You can highlight inbreeding. Very telling.
Wow, this has been one tough week for horse sports. After the two horses who had to be euthanized at Rolex (for an entirely different reason, but still it makes you think) I almost expected this to happen. I think it says something about the climate of the top of horse sports, no matter the discipline- riders are pushing their horses too much, at great cost to them.
Yes, I don't see how I can support racing anymore -- the first race at Arlington last year a horse fell & broke his leg right in front of us. And this poor filly. Then the nurse mare foals. Then all of the poor ex-race horses that go to slaughter. For what? Poor horses. They don't deserve any of this. Let horse racing be a past event.
jadis, they don't "run yearling." They do train them though. The majority begin under saddle training at 18 months or so. Race training somewhere after 24 months, roughly. Racing in the fall of their 2 yr old year.
For example, February 2005 foal. In training LATE 2006. First races, fall 2007. Derby May, 2008.
This is why I don't watch horse racing anymore.
However, I think racing is bad BECAUSE these horses are started so young, and THEN DIE AS A RESULT!!
My trainer is gearing up for a "ban 2 year old racing" protest in October at Santa Anita. She was the trainer who owned a fifth of a race horse that she was in charge of training and ended up "stealing" her own horse from the track when the other owners wouldn't let the horse have a rest from an injury. They wanted to drug him and run him and she said, "No!" She "stole" him on Christmas Eve and was arrested for grand theft horse! She was acquitted by a jury who recognized that she was saving the horse's life. He is still hidden to this day. The racing board, however, took away her trainer's license and she can't even set foot on a race track. She believes in training the horse as an athlete and never, ever race 2 yr olds. If you want more info about the protest, you can email racehorsewelfarereformadvocates@yahoo.com
She's also exposing the "blue rooms" where they kill horses. Blue rooms are on every track in the country though it's very hush hush.
Poor filly. Apparently, they were bumping her up on steroids.
Let's try and change the way racing is done. Form your own protest rally. 2 yr old racing kills baby horses!
Blueprints,
let me take you on a drive through the midwestern countryside to see the herds.... you'll find horse racing a bit less evil and morons a bit more common.
It is MORE probable that an ex-race horse will find a new home and a new career than 99% of the freaky fuglies being pumped out across the country. I would ride any OTTB before I would climb on or deal with one of these byb horses whose feet are handled once every 3 yrs. They are used to crowds, every imaginable strange noise, a variety of people, etc etc.
I'm NOT saying racing is perfect and filled with perfect people. I just really see it as the lesser of two evils. Also, more and more TB breeders are thinking about the conformation of their horses as it would/will relate to a second career.
I saw it on our local news, they really didn't show much and interviewed a vet at the track. I immediately tear up with this stuff, my husband always says I can watch humans get blown out of their shoes in a movie or whatever, but animals in peril, no deal.. People who stand to make so much money, they will be very hard to change..I won't watch this on any news tonight, I just do not agree with horse racing, I just don't know what the answer is here. I'm distressed, you know?
You know, some years ago I was offered a job with the racing commission as a judge. I had been away from horses for many years, I declined, everyone I knew said,"What are you crazy?" I'm glad I didn't do it,I knew NOTHING then, Holy Crap!!
I have to disagree with you, Fugly, this one time.
I don't think the staff for Eight Bells cared about her at all. I think that they are callous, unfeeling jackasses who should be drummed out of racing.
OK. You race a filly the day before the KY Derby, then you push her and push her in the Derby. Two races in two days and the 2nd race is a mile long. No wonder she broke down.
C'mon guys...doesn't that just SCREAM greedy?
i saw it too... i was like oooh no as soon as i saw. it's such a shame, she was a lovely filly with a huge heart.
she deserved better.
my non-horsey friend was here watching with me, and he was like what happened? and i explained how they start them so young, and that most can't hold up. he said, "well, if a few waited and raced them when they were mature, others would see that it's better for the horse." (he is a bicyclist, and knows that the peak performances in a bikers life come in what could be considered lower middle-age)
i had to then explain that it's all about the all-mighty dollar and the people involved don't care.
it's another sad day for us horsey people... :'(
Very sad what happened to Eight Belles. I don't think what happened to her was because of the jockey urging her on in the race, she broke down as he was pulling her up - virtually on the backstretch. As reported on bloodhorse.com:
The trainer said it appeared that the filly suffered a condylar fracture when trying to pull up. In attempting to keep herself up, she broke the other ankle, he said.
Jones said an autopsy will be performed and Porter had directed that the filly be cremated.
I was pleased to her she will be cremated. It did bother me she would just be dumped in a land fill.
I don't hate horse racing and I don't blame it for the breakdowns. Instead I blame breeders who breed for the breeding shed and NOT for strong boned horses.
Since we're talking about this, what about the two horses who died at the Rolex last weekend? NBC recaps the event tomorrow, and just like last year I'm sure they won't mention the outcomes of the accidents.
The NYTimes recently ran a story stating in the last year and a half, 12 riders have died in Eventing (I believe they stated worldwide, but I would assume the truth to be a much higher number). Twelve riders, so how many horses? Older horses, at least older than three-year-old racehorses, have died too, and to who's error? The rider for misjudging a fence or for not conditioning enough? The course designer for setting an elite course? The show management for not investing in the frangible pins that give away when a horse hits the fence.
That's my question: what are we more concerned about? The riding of two-year-olds or the breakdown of any horse for sport?
scorpio - what are you talking about when you say she raced the day before the derby? She may have been out on the track the day before - would you rather she spent 24 hours in her stall? - but she didn't race.
If you're going to demonize her connections, you probably ought to know what you're talking about.
i was at a restaurant watching the derby with family. when they said eight bells went down, i was hoping that maybe it would be something other than a breakdown. when i saw not one, but two horse ambulances, i knew. i couldn't finish eating. two years in a row!! goddamn, would it kill them to wait another fucking year???? it's already killing the horses not to.
Am I missing something as to why it was JUST Eight Belles that "shouldn't have raced"?? (not necessarily on this board, but others as well) Every horse in the race was the same age, and while I DONT condone riding yearlings, I'm not quite getting as to how she was more at risk than the others?
Scorpio- it was Eight Belles STABLEMATE that raced in the Oaks the day before.
A horse can NOT race legally in two consecutive days. The time may differ from state to state, but here in OH they cant race more than once a week.
I have to agree with you. Enough is enough already. The amount of money they drop on some of these yearlings, they can afford to carry them an extra year or two before trying to get their "investment" out of them. I'm extremely upset about this. What a beautiful filly. What a waste.
i think people are focusing on her because of her size and gender. And because she DID break down, it's easy to say, "SEE, I was RIGHT!!"
She does come from an unsound line of horses - her sire and grandsire were NOT known for longevity.
I have to agree with others who have posted that this was one of the saddest things to see on TV. First I rooted for her, then I cried for her. All within several seconds. RIP Eight Belles.
When I saw the headline I thought they were talking about another Kentucky Derby, an old one and they were just bringing it up again, I couldn't believe it was from the one today, for god's sake, is this a clue to people? How can all of them ignore all of these breakdowns and think it is ok? I am so glad I wasn't watching it, I had been at our last team dinner and the pre show was on, I was in consideration of staying and watching but then I figured I had too much work. I can only imagine what would have happened if I stayed. Lord, I would have cried my eyes out in front of all of my team mates and the guy's team, holy shit. I just can't figure out why there are so many people in the racing industry so obsessed with the money, where are the huge breeders/racers that are willing to step up and say no to racing babies? I just can't figure out how they deal with their conscious, how in hell do they keep doing this.
As for the racing not being as bad as all other sports, I disagree, yeah, there are deaths in other sports, but usually, they are looked into and the reason is figured out and some sort of solution is devised. Like bendable flags in XC, I think that those are more widely used after that horse slit his artery and had to be euthed. Racing I don't see any progress towards finding alternatives besides the new footing on some tracks, whoop-de-fucking-do, how about we look at the real problem, like the fact that horses shouldn't be ridden as fucking babies and started at 18 months. That is fucking sick, and it always makes me sad when they call them fillies and colts. It just reminds you how young the poor buggers are. Sorry for the rant, but I am surrounded by non-horsey people who I can't vent to and I am just horrified.
I have one of these at my house. She won a little money...was nominated to the Breeder's Cup...broke a bone in her knee...I got her for $400...of course she was very, very poor when we got her, but not now! She is one of the lucky ones. It is so wrong to ride them so young. We are breeding "disposable" horses.
the most description of the injury I've seen---
Bramlage said the fracture in Eight Belles’ left front ankle opened the skin, allowing contamination to set in. At least one of her sesamoid bones was broken, too.
“She didn’t have a front leg to stand on to be splinted and hauled off in the ambulance, so she was immediately euthanized,” he said. “In my years in racing, I have never seen this happen at the end of the race or during the race.”
Eight Belles was worse than the rest because of her size. 17h is just too much to be full grown by 3. I've got $20 says her knees aren't closed yet.
it's been a very sad day!!!
a sad day, indeed...
dani berrong (henderson, kentucky)
So, is there anything that can be done about racing break-downs? If nothing is done, then this will happen over & over again. If age is the issue, can the races be moved back? If breeding too light/slight is the problem, then can an effort be made to move in that direction -- even if it is a different division? I heard that all of the horses in the KY Derby were from the Native Dancer line. Is inbreeding an issue?
Can the distance be lowered for the Derby & Belmont ... just throwing out ideas. Probably just wishful thinking, but it's got to start somewhere ...
The Derby's really lost some of its shine for me, especially after watching the horse market go down the shitter, reading Fugly and TBFriends, reading auction reports, etc. Especially with my dad, who really enjoys horse racing but is completely naive of the things going on related to it.
I also read the article about Native Dancer, and the first things that popped into my head were HERDA and HYPP. Not the really the same things, but in another way exactly the same. Even the image of Native Dancer that they had in the newspaper showed off his wonky legs--although, since I'm not a TB expert, it may have been the way the image was cropped--but for some reason I don't think it was that. Strange that the article was so inappropriate and epecially appropriate at the same time.
It's not just that they're not pysically developed enough to run at these ages, it's also that they're not mentally developed enough to run. Think about a three year old human child. If you put him in a running race, he wouldn't understand what it was about. He'd become confused and upset. Racing horses this young causes mental issues along with soundness ones. I've known a lot of OTT Tbs, and I will admit that they are wonderful horses, but there also problems left over from race days. They high strung 12 year old who doesn't understand why he has to trot so much. The 17 year old who cannot stand to wait quietly, and has trouble interacting with other horses. These mental issues are often harder to solve than physical ones.
If enough trainers and owners in the industry stood up and said that they would try to change things, I beleive that racing in America really could change for the better. I think the word needs to get out, and the public taught about these issues.
Various studies have shown steroid use in horses to range from 60-80 percent. Steroids cause excessive weight gain combined with weakened connective tissue. I am a doctor, not a vet, but it stands to reason that this is a recipe for disaster with horse feet and legs.
I have often wondered how namy of the leg injuries in horses stem from steroid use.
Unbridled's Song needs to be gelded. NOW. He produces unsound horses, often big unsound horses. I have grown up watching racing and I love the sport, but I am so sad to see my breed being slowly destroyed by breeding for cheap early speed. I think the JC needs to start approving stallions based on durability, longevity, and stamina. Unrealistic, I know... Sigh.
What just seems so wrong is they are all partying, big celebration, after this horrifying incident. I don't understand the mindset,I guess. It's just a bit barbaric, maybe, You know?
I really had Big Brown pegged for a breakdown with those feet of his. That, and he looked a little off in the saddling paddock. That poor filly, I wanted to break down into tears before the vet even spoke you could see it in his face. The Triple Crown needs to be a series for older horses so the greedy bastards don't have any incentives to get them going early...but then god forbid they'd have to feed them for another year or so before they could start making money off of them. My horse blew a tendon and a year later was running again - it's a miracle he's sound now (esp since he's a Mr. Prospector grandson)
Tomorrow they air the Rolex...wonder if there will be any mention of the two horses that went down and never got up. Personally, I think its the changes that HAVE been made to the sport that have caused the recent streak of accidents, but I won't get into that here.
scorpiostinger said...
...I don't think the staff for Eight Bells cared about her at all. I think that they are callous, unfeeling jackasses who should be drummed out of racing.
OK. You race a filly the day before the KY Derby, then you push her and push her in the Derby. Two races in two days and the 2nd race is a mile long. No wonder she broke down.
No - thant's not correct. They PULLED her from a race the day before. It doesn't make it right but I've no doubt all the folks who were involved with Eight Belles felt terrible about what happened.
Actually, it seemed to take the wind out of sails of the winners, too.
My impresison of the annnouners was that they were trying to balance respect for the loss of Eight Belles with kudos for the winner.
A hard time for everyone.
I would have a message for the female mounted announcer if I met her - Perhaps the network could buy you some basic riding lessons. Your legs are not an image of horsemanship that should be sent to the world. If it a disability and you are actually a terrific rider my apologies but truly, given that your image is televised, perhaps side-saddle might be comfortable and classy option?
i was so sad when i heard that she died at least she was euthinized on the spot and hopefully didn't suffer to much. i would be horrified if i was the owner. personally i think racehorses should start training at 3 and begin racing at 4. why would you train and work with an expensive horse that young when the odds are that the are going to break down like that. it's not a risk i'm willing to take with any horse.
I too saw the Kentucky Derby today and I was so taken aback by Eight Belles and what happened to her. I was hoping beyond hope that she would be okay and immediately thought back to Barbaro. My husband came home and I was telling him and I burst into tears. Yes for a horse I didn't even know. I think it is senseless to run those babies that hard or at all when any knowledgeable horse person knows that their legs along with everything else is not mature enough to handle the strain. I am so sorry for Eight Belles. She was amazing. RIP Beautiful Filly.
Was I the only one who thought that Big Brown did not exactly look sound as he was being trotted towards the winners circle.
I thought this before they showed the filly was down. This was not an afterthought.
I have just been so upset all day. Seeing the photos of them pushing her to the ground as she stood on the front of her fetlocks..
>>As for the racing not being as bad as all other sports, I disagree, yeah, there are deaths in other sports, but usually, they are looked into and the reason is figured out and some sort of solution is devised. <<
No they aren't. Who has found a solution for all the pleasure futurity horses or reining or cutting futurity horses that are breaking down permanently on a daily basis in this country?
What you see in racing is the spectacular breakdown. I also want to talk about the non-spectacular breakdown - the 3 or 4 year old show horse who is already crippled and winds up quietly going to slaughter. That is a worse death. A much worse death. And while everybody screams about racing, they overlook the bigger issue: horses are being started too early and worked too hard in nearly EVERY discipline and they ARE dying from it. They are just as dead if they die in the slaughterhouse that they wound up at because they were 4 years old with navicular as if they break down on live television with two shattered ankles.
I want to see EVERY discipline just STOP riding them so damn early and working them so damn hard. It is killing our horses...in virtually every breed.
Drives me nuts.
I'm more of a lurker here, although I have posted comments occasionally. I was so devastated by the loss of Eight Belles, that I wrote a poem to honor her memory, and to ease my grief. I would like to share it with those here who would like to read it.
A Dream of Dreams
A White bridle soaked with excited foam,
The gate drew closer, I smelled the warm chrome.
Prancing on legs so delicate and strong,
Into the chute I loaded, my heart soaring with song.
All the other thoroughbreds in time took their turn,
Whinnying with excitement with energy to burn,
I was the only filly to enter the prestigious fray,
And lots of young hearts would run with me today.
Suddenly the bell tolled, and I leapt forth with a flurry,
To make my own place in the history of the Derby,
One hundred thirty four years since it had first commenced,
And the grandstands overflowed, the prospect still intense.
Starting fifth I was lucky, and I quickly met the pack,
I bided my time, and I held myself back,
But when the crowd exploded as the stretch grew quickly near,
I pushed through the dense throng, and leant my jockey my ear.
The reins grew slack and I leapt for the lead,
I gave it my all and showed amazing speed,
I came in second, barely loosing the golden cup,
But I showed everyone who watched, that a filly could triumph.
I was so bold, so brilliant, so wildly blessed,
I ran with the wind, I ran with the best,
Deep in my heart, I knew somehow I had won,
And as I fell to my knees, I looked towards the setting sun.
It was shining so brightly on my piece of track,
I smiled so warmly, as I laid my head back,
The price was so high, and it was my turn to pay,
And even if I'd known, I would of raced today, anyway.
RIP Eight Belles, and all those other willing steeds, who also lost their lives on the track.
bluprints said:
"Yes, I don't see how I can support racing anymore -- the first race at Arlington last year a horse fell & broke his leg right in front of us."
Speaking of Arlington, that very thing happened at one of the races in Aug. of 2000, I know because it was burned into my brain.
We were on our way back at the end of our honeymoon and hubby says, lets go to Arlington. In the final race, one of the fillys broke a leg midstride coming around the home stretch.
I will never forget the sight of that poor thing running with her front leg broken, while the jockey tried to get her to stop. My husband had to keep me from getting up and running onto the track to help.
And I was horrified that no one came to her aid...none of the track people or anyone.
She ran for countless furlongs it seemed until someone ran onto the track and not until the horse crossed the finish line right in front of the stands. They were so unprepared and incompetent, I was absolutely disgusted and sick.
Tears still come to my eyes when I think about that incident.
I agree completley, i dont think young horses should be ridden. it screws up their growth patterns and bone structure. why do we constantly ruin horses for a profit?
*sound of head hitting desk*
djl-
"Was I the only one who thought that Big Brown did not exactly look sound as he was being trotted towards the winners circle."
Nope, I saw it too. He had a slight head bob and was off...I noticed it when they passed the camera as well.
God I am happy I didn't see it. My friends mom told us that she broke down and I nearly did. I agree 100% that it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to ride yearlings. It makes me sick. That poor little filly ran her heart out and beat those boys only to die in the most painful way. I do feel for her owners and jockey but we ALL know that if you wait, even a year until they are 2 to start the TB's it will save so may innocent pony lives.
RIP
beautiful girl, you did great.
I read about this earlier, and thought about that poor girl. I just don't get how people can look at a baby and say hey let's ride em'.... I mean look at this little guys they are obviously in no way ready to ride. Work on everything else, but wait until they are obviously old enough to do the work required of them, and by old enough, I mean strong enough to withstand the rigors of the job selected for them. So that just maybe they might go on to some sort of useful retirement. And yeah I agree horse racing does get the brunt of the negative publicity, but geeesh people wise up. Poor girl. What a shame.
I was watching the race, cheering for Eight Belles... I wanted to cry when I saw what happened, especially when my 3 year old nephew asked why that horsie fell down.
The racing industry does need to step back and take a look at itself. Another horse broke down yesterday at Chuch Hill Downs, something needs to be done.
My bad, I know jack shit about anything western, I was talking about English stuff, like XC. I feel like jumping has a lot more 12 and older horses competing, that says something for the sport and how much safer it is for the horses and more care is taken for them. You don't see huge blow outs in these huge competitions where the horse had to be euthed on the field because of two shattered ankles, no doubt they happen, but not to two year olds in their 4th go round, or however many times this poor filly raced. As for the Rolex thing, didn't see it and this is the first I heard about it, but I would expect them to look into why it happened, whether it was a freak accident or what, and then look at their policies to make sure it doesn't happen again.
One more thing, the owners not being greedy and they did care, bullshit, that's what I say to that. If they weren't greedy then they would have had no problem not racing this thing in this race when she was this young, they would have managed without the prize money for another year or two and run her when she was ready. The only reason they are mourning is because they just lost a potential money earner. The only way I will see otherwise is if they donate all of their prize money to a thoroughbred rescue to help thoroughbreds who have been fucked over by their owners, until then, I would have no problem telling this filly's owners to shove their heads where the sun don't shine.
I wasn't even going to watch the race this year because I just can't stand the thought of these "babies" being made to run like that. But I tuned in at the last minute just to watch Eight Belles. I was excited for her when I saw that she placed second and then I heard she was down. It made me sick to my stomach and a few choice words came out of my mouth. At first they said maybe there was something wrong with her heart, but later they announced she had broken BOTH front ankles and they had euthanized her. I broke down into tears. BOTH front ankles!! I am so disgusted right now.
It's all about money, there is so much invested, these horses are product to them, objects. I'm sure there are some people who don't feel this way, but the dog track, greyhounds, horrible stuff there, also. I don't gamble, so I really don't understand why this goes on, you know? It's not really a sport in my estimation, you're just running animals to death.
Crazysparkles, your poem was lovely, I envy people who can express their feelings through poetry or music.
Well, at least the one incident at Rolex really was a freak accident (The one where the horse flipped). I haven't seen footage of the other. But I will say this - they aren't eventing at 2 or 3. If you tried to take a baby that young into the Rolex, I'm not even sure if it would be allowed (I am not an eventing person and don't know what the rules are) but I am sure your peers would tar and feather you.
Darn you CrazySparkles, poems always make me cry, it was a beautiful poem
This is why I stopped watching racing years ago. I love TBs and I love nothing more then to watch them run to the hearts content. Most of them love it too. What I can't abide with is greedy fucking owners and trainers who have fallen into this idea that one more year of letting them grow before you race is a *waste* of money. It is the same reason any two year old is out there racing or showing. And I refuse to support *any* discipline that shows/races babies so young.
I made a special effort to watch the Derby. I will not watch it or other races in the future. I, like others, rooted for the filly and was brought to tears and shock when I realized what happened.
I realize other sports start horses way too young also. No time like the present to make a statement by not supporting/participating. Bless your soul Eight Belles for running as you were told.
A little bitter Ugly Horse Owner? WTF? I really think its beyond rude to say they only care b/c she was a potential money earner. You obviously have NO idea how race horse owners feel about their horses.
Every one of us who has ever sat on a 3yo best bow down to you now for showing us the light. We all hate our horses and only see them as potential money. *rolls eyes*
She's a 3yo running this race BTW, not 2.
And, I really think Fugly has a point, who has the worse life? This poor mare who was euthanized on the spot? Or the HUNDREDS of pleasure horses, halter horses, eventers, reiners, jumpers, gaited horses, etc etc who spend 15 years being completely lame and crippled?
While the story is a sad one, the fact is, she almost won the race finishing second to a very good horse. If Big Brown wasn't in the race, she would have won and then we would have a huge story with the Derby Winner (a filly too) broke down after the race.
The fact is that thoroughbred race horses are bred for one specific purpose, to race. She had qualified to race in the biggest race of the year and the chance to run in the Derby only comes once in a horse's life. She finished gamely which shows that she belonged in the race. I can't blame the connections of this filly for wanting to proove that their filly could run with the boys.
It's sad when this happens on racing's big days. Anyone remember Ruffian?
why doesn't the race horse industry do this???
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=horse&id=3374282
LEXINGTON, Ky. -- American equestrian officials were preparing to impose new safety rules -- including suspensions for certain dangerous jumps -- after a weekend accident that killed a horse and critically injured its rider
O'Connor said the USEF this week is expected to implement rules imposing automatic suspensions, ranging from three to six months, for any horse and rider that has a rotational fall. The pair also would lose their qualification at the difficulty level where the fall occurred.
"We've talked about rider responsibility a lot over many years," O'Connor said. "You're talking about just trying to put some teeth behind our responsibility to take care of horses in competition."
And who wants to bet that Big Brown will come up permanently crippled (if he's lucky) by the end of the triple crown? How many top horses have died or been crippled in the last 10 years of the Triple Crown?
Blogger Doni1010 said...
And who wants to bet that Big Brown will come up permanently crippled (if he's lucky) by the end of the triple crown? How many top horses have died or been crippled in the last 10 years of the Triple Crown?
May 3, 2008 7:28 PM
he looked off before teh race!
CrazySparkles, that poem was amazing!! I got all teary.
Re: eventing.
In NZ there are young horse classes aimed at 4/5 year olds. I think the max height is around 95cm (completely not sure on that one though).
FEI rulebook says a horse must be 7 in order to compete at 3 and 4 star level.
What a terrible loss. That there was a filly who was capable of competing successfully with the colts...that was really something. Now she's gone, and also all that she could have brought to the breed. What a shame.
FOTHD said:
I'd just love it if the light went on for someone. Not just them -
C'mon Fugs. The light has been on forEVER. But since the money is in the dark the light will NEVER be acknowledged. If the public stops paying to see races, betting on races and the big money goes away the TB (and all other breeds started early for $$) might stand a chance. That's a long shot the likes of the racing industry has never seen. Like you said in your post, you can dream, right?
Ruffian was before my time- but the ESPN movie they made about her was just heartwrenching. Does anyone remember Go For Wand? Another ill fated filly who broke down racing the undefeated mare Bayakoa & got up to try & finish her race with her rigth front leg flailing away. I can remeber seeing as they put her down, her hoof twisted backwards on her leg where she had shredded her leg to ribbons.
I cried- I knew as soon as they said she was down & they showed the 2 ambulances that she was already gone. I love racing, but wish they had rules about starting them so young.
I have been tossing around name ideas for my mare's foal- she's due anyday now & I have been playing around with names in the pedigree to name this baby- my mare's name is Dunrovin's Silver Belle, she is bred to ASA Egyptian King's Talisman. I had thought about naming the foal EK Silver Talisman, but after today, the name is going to be EK Talisman's Eight Belles.
Ohiostatfan said: And, I really think Fugly has a point, who has the worse life? This poor mare who was euthanized on the spot? Or the HUNDREDS of pleasure horses, halter horses, eventers, reiners, jumpers, gaited horses, etc etc who spend 15 years being completely lame and crippled?
I'm sorry, but I think this is completely beside the point. You're talking about the ENDING. The horses need us to start at the beginning. No horse would need to be euthanized and no horse would need to suffer as a crippled ex-anything if the needs of the horse were put before the bottom line. Talking about the lesser of two evils isn't the answer.
I enjoy watching horse racing from time to time - 1st time I watched the Derby was in '73 when I was an 11 YO horse nut. Never bred horses but have read a lot about them - just finished re-reading "Man O'War: A Legend Like Lightening". There's also a photographer named Barbara Livingston (sp?) who has numerous photos of Man O'War taking during the later years in his life. He's got a big dip in his back (not swaybacked according to the book) but you can see from the photos that "Big Red" had bone and substance to spare. Unfortunately, the Man O'War sireline is pretty rare these days, all in favor of the Native Dancers - mostly Raise A Native, who was unable to race after age 2 due to his legs (too thin to properly support his body I believe) and Northern Dancer - one of his most popular sons, Danzig (who died last year) only raced 3 times before being retired to stud - due to knee joint issues. He sired plenty of stakes winners just as did Raise A Native's son Mr. Prospector. You might say the weak-legged blood is overwhemling the "solid" strong-legged blood eminating from Man O'War, Fair Play, Bull Lea, etc. I don't like the idea of yearlings being started and 2 YO baby races myself, but it just seems that lately, even with advanced knowledge in racing surfaces and so forth, you just hear about this going on way too often - I saw someone mention the Breeders' Cup year when so many horses were injured. The racing industry is set in its ways so I really don't see the end of 2 YO races at any point soon. However, it seems to me that back in the day the horses were more sturdily bred and could handle the early training better than now. And perhaps the earlier trainers may have been a bit more leisurely in their training schedule for the babies.
There's a very good book that was written about the 1984-1985 racing season, focusing on Chief's Crown but covering all facets of the racetrack - from the claimers to the Triple Crown contenders. "Tarnished Crown" by Carol Flake. Check your local library as it is well worth reading.
Today's TB breeding "industry" is breeding for the quick bucks, early starters, 2 YO runners. You can almost think of tomatoes - the early tomatoes that ripen fast don't taste nearly as rich as the old heirloom varieties. (in reading that now, it sounded better in my head).
Sad day - I'm certainly not in a hurry to watch the replays. When was the last time a filly came in second in the Derby?
djl - NO you are not the only one who thinks Big Brown wasn't quite right. I thought to myself as they were walking him out into the paddock that he looked sore on his front left. It appeared to me that he took two gimpy steps before they cut away the shot. I am surprised that he wasnt' the one who went down.
Also I don't thing that it is JUST Eight Belles who shouldn't have raced, however fillys are just not as strong as colts at 3 and have to work so much harder to compete. So it stands to reason that she would have complications, but this was much more than a heart breaking complication.
I saw that, such a shame.
Unfortunately, it was bound to happen. She's a 17 hand, awkward moving, skinny, fast, TB filly with long legs and a pedigree that screams "I'M REALLY FRAGILE!"
look at her conformation:
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=4
http://www.rockportharbor.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=93&pos=2
anyway, I just want to say that Larry Jones (trainer) is a really good horseman, and so are her owners. Believe me, they LOVED that filly, they were so confident in her. Larry always talked about how sweet she was and how they all liked her. There are some pretty shitty people in the horse racing industry, larry jones and the team at foxhill farms are the good guys.
Luckily we still have people like Shug McGaughey and Barclay Tagg who are "hay oats and water" activists.
With everyone around me freaking out about how horrible racing is and how greedy and evil Belles' owners/trainers surely *must* be, I really appreciate your sound point of view on this. Hopefully some good will come from these high profile incidents and the industry will make it a top priority to reduce injury as much as possible.
Rest in peace, Belles, you amazed me.
Secondwind- I'm not even so much talking about the "ending" as it were. Plenty of horses break down who started at older ages on the track, and plenty of horses started young end up sound.
MY point is, WHY is the racing industry inherently more 'evil' than any other? Its just MORE PUBLICIZED.
Also wanted to say that Eight Belles DEFINITELY belonged in that race. Had Big Brown opted out of the derby she would have dusted the entire field.
I watched a video of her breakdown and it was really just a freak accident... she swapped her leads and tripped while still going somewhat fast. Something that could happen to an equally fragile horse in the paddock.
Nash- did you see her turn her head out and veer to the right in the stretch? I wonder if she may have hurt herself then...it was so pronounced and odd I made mention of it to my husband.
Honestly I think she hurt herself then, and had she not, would have given Big Brown a real run for the money, she was one HECK of a filly, and I agree, most def. belonged in that race.
To the poster who was watching " Barbaro in the Derby when he broke down..."
Barbaro actually *won* the Derby in '06...he broke down in the Preakness.
Yes, the racing culture, like corporate America in general, is about the business of making money, but I don't think you can characterize *everyone* involved with these horses as immoral, rapacious evil-doers.
OMG that poem is beautiful. Thank you for shareing it with us.
Ohiostatfan:
If you watch videos of Eight Belle's races or workouts, you'll see that she habitually ran with her head tilted to her right.
ps: I am a Buckeye grad
Julian, Yes, but it was more than that...it was a huge 'to do' really. My husband who is NOT a follower of racing picked up on it, and he misses 'things' I see all the time. LOL I'll see them 'hit the wall' or when jocks go to the whip, long before him, and he's a horse guy.
Nice to see another Buckeye here!
Don't know if anyone caught this or not, but just a bit spooky & a bit too ironic for me- Frank Whiteley Jr died today in Camden, SC. For those wondering Who he might have been, he was Ruffian's trainer!
Like I said, a bit spooky- one great filly gone today & the trainer of another great ill fated filly gone today as well.
Yes, the racing culture, like corporate America in general, is about the business of making money, but I don't think you can characterize *everyone* involved with these horses as immoral, rapacious evil-doers.
I agree, but, many of them, while they may love their horses and care for them, still start them disgracefully early. What is their excuse, "It’s what everyone is doing", well to me that sounds like what the 14 year old tells his mom the first time he gets caught with pot. It should never be used by a mature adult as a way to rectify what they're doing. One should never drop their moral standard just because it is what everyone else is doing. That is why I have a problem with every single race person who starts their horse too young, whether they are seemingly the nicest people ever, I still have an issue with them and how they treat their horses. They may not be evil, but they are certainly nit kind.
Sorry - I need to correct myself- I have 2 different sources that can't agree- both are on the computer, but I will go with the ESPN report- Frank Whiteley died yesterday (friday). Still very sad & freaky, to me.
ugly:
Point take and agreed with.
Ugly horse owner....are you out campaigning to keep teenage kids from playing football/baseball/basketeball???
Because there's at LEAST a proportional number of HUMANS that have 'career ending injuries' while playing sports as a teen/pre teen....
>>MY point is, WHY is the racing industry inherently more 'evil' than any other? Its just MORE PUBLICIZED.<<
I agree with this wholeheartedly, and it was part of the point I was trying to make. Sure, cry for Eight Belles. But while you're at it, cry for the 500 little broken down futurity horses that will end their lives in a Mexican slaughterhouse in the next month or so. And cry for all of no-name Thoroughbreds going on those same trucks to Mexico. And cry for the poor little Heinz 57 horse that got broke out by someone's kids at twelve months and is standing in the auction pen with arthritis everywhere at age 10. The filly had an accident and was very quickly and responsibly put out of her suffering. Would I have rather they hadn't broke out this huge gangly filly way too early and run her way too early? You bet. But they are hardly the only ones guilty of early breaking/work in the horse industry.
The whole Barbaro thing irked me no end because people went NUTS like he was Princess Di (another thing that annoyed me) and were actually SENDING MONEY and shit...GIVE ME A BREAK! His owners are wealthy! Take your money and go to your local auction and save some poor little low end claimer who is about to go on a slaughter truck.
Seriously, if you want to do something to honor this filly? Go save some no-name racehorse. The Enumclaw Auction is tomorrow for those of you in this area - and you can bet that some Emerald Downs throwaways will be there, selling for $300 and under. They didn't break down - at least not bad enough to die - but they are going to die anyway, and a lot worse death than Eight Belles died, if someone doesn't intervene.
RIP.
I'm heartbroken today. Eight Belles was my 'Derby pick,' in part because she reminded me of another big grey filly, Winning Colors, whose Derby victory twenty years ago was one of the very first races I remember seeing as a kid. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around a horse being injured so gravely while galloping out, after the race.
I'm horse racing addict. However, early in my addiction, my mom argued with me over whether or not it was cruel, and as a result I've spent a lot of time thinking and reading about ways to make the sport more humane. I don't think it is necessarily a cruel sport, but I think a combination of moneygrubbing, 'tradition' and money often makes it so. I told someone today if I was grand high commissionaire of all horse racing, I would outlaw two year old racing, shift emphasis to stakes races for older horses, ban race day medications, scrap all dirt tracks in favour of grass and synthetic surfaces, tighten up trainer licensing, promote breeding for soundness, and improve farriering for racehorses, among other things. But I'm not, and there's really no such position to coordinate reforms. However, there are changes afoot. I think the change to synthetic surfaces is a change in the right directions (and there have been figures released proving there are fewer fatalities on synthetic surfaces than dirt, I just don't have them at my fingertips). There has also been a conference on racehorse welfare involving major breeders/owners/trainers/jockeys/etc that released a lot of recommendations on making the sport more humane, and I believe they're having another this year. IIRC, their number one goal is to ban toe grips on shoes, which is at least a relatively achievable short term goal. if there is change, it will be slow, but there appears to be growing awareness that, at the very least, horse deaths are a PR problem for the sport.
I don't think two year olds should be racing. However, to be a little fair to the people involved, I don't think they have made a conscious decision to be cruel to growing horses. That's not to say they should be doing it (because they shouldn't!), but I think most of them haven't sat down and thought 'Gee, this is wrong, but I want to make the money.' They just don't think about it, because it's the way it's always been done. It will take some time and effort to get through to them, to get them to start thinking about it as an issue...and then maybe things will change.
As for the breeding issue, one demonstration I like to make with people is to take a picture of Man O' War and compare it to a picture of one of our modern racehorses, and look at the legs. Man O' War had bone in spades. Most racehorses at this point are noticeably very slender-legged. I was told once (and this came from a breeding forum, and I don't have enough knowledge personally to know whether it has a factual basis or not) that horses with a lot of Man O' War in them tended to be quite sound, and Seattle Slew was one of the sounder modern lines because he had a couple of crosses to Man O' War. I do remember from books I read as a kid that Polynesian, Native Dancer's sire, was notorious for siring fragile-legged foals. I also know that fifty percent of registered Thoroughbreds today descend from Native Dancer's grandson, Northern Dancer. Although as a Canadian I take some delight in Northern Dancer's success :), I have to say any breed owing half its gene pool to one relatively recent stallion is just wrong. Furthermore, that's just one Native Dancer line stallion. He had other sons and grandsons that were successful as sires. Taking that and the Northern Dancer figure into account, can you imagine how many TBs have Native Dancer in their pedigree and the possibility for his wonky legs?
In any case, none of my outrage helps Eight Belles. Rest in peace, brave filly. I hope you run with Barbaro.
THANK YOU Fugly!
Those who are complaining, go buy a local claimer. In fact, heck, talk with their trainer, they'll probably be happier to send them to you than to the sale.
I am happy to be "in cahoots" with our local track and have the opportunity to take some non-productive TB's home...and do so, and will continue to do so forever.
>>Show the world that the horses are more important to you than the money.<< FHOTD
Unfortunately we all know that money is the most important aspect for most race people. The horses well being is secondary. Yes, they care if their horse breaks down, but it's because of the money that most (not all) care.
Earlier racing means money sooner. It also means that race people can cull their herd at a younger age, cutting costs.
As nice as it is to imagine not riding yearlings, we all know the reality is it saves money in the long run.
Don't get me wrong. I do not like racing, not for the sport itself, but because of the horse's ages. I wouldn't like ___insert sport here___ if they were on the backs of their yearlings.
Ohiostatfan, I personally hate kids. But, I would have a problem with a parent who pushed their child to such a high level that the kid got injured and the kid didn't even want to go to that level. But since horses have no voices and they are pushed into doing it whether they like it or not, I can't see much of a comparison. If the child says yeah, I want to do this and they get injured trying, well that's a bummer, if a child cries and does not want to participate in the sport any longer at a specific level, but the parent pushes them into it and then they get injured I would have an issue. But since the horse can't talk I absolutely have a problem starting babies.
Her dam, Away, was born in 1966??? She was 39 when she had Eight Belles? PLEASE tell me I'm reading this wrong, that a poor 39 year old mare wasn't bred....
Wow, I'm a little concerned that you "hate kids" I have no desire to have them....but surely dont hate them. Glad your parents didnt 'hate kids'
Either way, you aren't campaigning for the kids playing sports.
I guess horses hate what we 'do' to them.....shouldnt' ride them at all? What makes you think they "want" to be ridden/shown at 6 or 7 vs 3? LOL hell I've got a pony here who'd be MORE than happy to never go for a ride again. Guess I better tell her owners they are bad people for riding her?
Equisoup- TB names are allowed to be re-used. Not the same mare.
I saw Go For Wand race and she was magnificant! Huge stride and bigger heart! Broke my heart to see her struggling at the Breeder's Cup trying finish her final race. Eight Belles was right up there in her class and the world will miss another great one... RIP girlfriend...
I was watching, too. And I agree, they start too young. The Thoroughbred, IMO, is being bred right out of any semblance of a hale and hearty animal. Stop breeding unsound animals. Stop retiring 3 year olds and sending them to stud. The YUM jerk could have at least offered condolences. Eight Belle's connections are devastated- like anyone with a heart would, they loved her.
This is why I love/hate racing. Love to watch them run, love seeing how human their connections are...abhor seeing them crumple on the track.
did you read the May Equus Magazine? A vet in California has been studying the interval between heartbeats as an indicator of pain/stress. She is able to predict what horses will break down. In a study of 17 TBs, she predicted 13 would suffer an illness or injury. 12 of those 13 did. The other 4 they predicted would be fine, and they were. I'm sure trainers/owners won't utilize this new info.
Did anyone else here the guy say that Big Brown had bad feet? THATs why he had only been raced 3 other times... maybe you shouldnt race him period... theres a thought! I agree hes good...obviously..but if they choose to run him in the preakness, they might just kill him too. I had really hoped that filly would win today..never helps when its black and looks just like a TB gelding I lost to a freak ice accident a few years back. Breaks my heart everytime.
My horse, which i intend on eventing in the next year just turned 9. He is a friesian/tb who grew rediculously slow, just finished filling out at 6! Has been in light dressage training for a year and will just be started on jumping this year. I agree that these horses just dont have the growth to hold themselves up, running rediculously fast and ON their forehand. Those fragile legs just cant take it that young!
What I dont get is Arabians have tiny legs, look more fragile then most TBs legs and yet they do endurance races and everything under the sun and rarely seem to break down...obviously they know how to breed for soundness...the racers should maybe take note!
RIP Belles, you were AMAZING
PS poem made me cry!
horseys4me -
some arabians have tiny legs, but many do not. i have a 14.1hh arab gelding who has heavy bone and size one feet.
there are a lot of different bloodlines of arabs - the one most are familiar with are the egyptians, many of which indeed do have tiny legs. polish and CMK bloodlines are the ones more common in endurance horses, and they have a MUCH heavier build than your showy egyptians.
I, too, noticed that Big Brown looked 'off' before the race, and even worse after. He has bad feet, and a pedigree full of soundness issues. I hope his connections give him the summer off and see how he's doing in the fall before running him again, but I don't think they will. I certainly hope he can stay sound through the Classics, but from the looks of things, I'd have to wager that he won't. Sad.
Big Brown's hoof issues are apparently quarter cracks. They believe they've remedied that with the glue-on shoes.
I heard on TV that the trainers think she actually broke or fractured her ankles earlier in the race. She took a misstep early on that is difficult to see unless you get a view from the side. What I saw was filly in a lot of pain but fighting in the end of the race. Her head wasn't bobbing right and her front legs weren't either. I personally think it was the track. Churchill Downs is known for its treacherousness. Several horses were injured on Friday on the track. I think polytrack would have been a better option. On top of that I was frosted at one of MSNBC's commentators who said Eight Belles' break down was proof that girls could not handle the boys. I think if she hadn't injured her ankles she would have won. I'm surprised she finished at second. I think that people need to stop looking at the money pay out for these races, and horses and start looking at what the horses need and can do realistically. Opinions?
Ohiostatfan, I missed the part where I said I'm not campaigning for kids playing sports? I play sports and I don't have a problem with kids who want to play sports playing sports, I do, and I believe I said this, have a problem with parents pushing their kids so hard they either get mentally burnt out, or physically injure themselves because they were not ready for what their parents asked them to do. I also think sports are great for a kids health, but like everything, too much of a good thing can be bad.
I don't much understand where "want" came into it, I don't think what a horse wants has anything to do with it. We, as people who have domesticated a wild animal, should be responsible and be concerned with what is best for the horse, not always necessarily what they want. Riding a baby is not what is in the horse's best interest if we want to give the horse a better potential future. As for the pony you mentioned that would rather never be ridden again, unless he is lame from being started as a baby, then there is no problem with riding him, I don't have a problem riding sound horses. Exercise is probably in his best interest anyway, whether he wants it or not, and if he is like any other horse who has the instincts to roam, he would probably eventually get bored of being in the field all the time, unless he is on a huge amount of land, which is possible. And no, I don't think most horses hate what we do to them, if they did there would be more accidents with horses just refusing to do something and hurting a person trying to get away from it.
As for my parents hating kids, can you be sure that they didn't hate kids; can you be sure I wasn't abandoned by my parents? Nope, you can't.
I wasn't, but just making a point, that is a broad comment to make, because there are a lot of people out there who got the short end of the stick with parents who hated kids. But, you're right, maybe hate was a little strong, I do highly dislike a lot of children, mostly because they have grown up in a world where video games are the new parents and there is no such thing as discipline, but that is a whole new can of worms.
This is horrible tragedy. Every time a horse breaks down it is terrible, but every time a horse breaks down on TV the entire country over-reacts. Yes, lots of horses in every disiple break down, but there are hundreds of other horses uder the same demands that don't. I've noticed that this blog, just like the media, puts more emphasis on the bad than the good. It'd be nice if there would be a change.
FYI, Barbaro broke down in the Preakness, he had already won the Derby a few weeks before. I believe he would have put up a good fight for the entire Triple Crown had his leg held up. I did cry when he died.
UHO, indeed its up to us to determine what is best for our horses and our kids no matter what THEY think is best ;) Either way, I hear a lot of outcry for early "wounded" horses but not so much for kids. Not particularly from you, but from everyone. Just a thought for the day.
As for the pony who is so hateful about being ridden. She was started at FIVE, in fact late in her 5yo year. Allowed plenty of time to grow up and be handled. Hateful beast she is. Doesnt want anything to do with a 'job'
She is in the minority. Most of our horses seem to sincerely ENJOY their jobs (and MANY horses enjoy their jobs, from pleasure to show, to trail to race, etc) MOST of our horses were started as 3yo's, some 2yos. NONE after 3 except that hateful pony.
Coincedence? Possibly, though as 'trainers' we get a lot of them.
Never said your parents hated you...in fact said it was good they didnt ;) Only that 'hate' is an awful strong word.
Point taken about hate, you're very right about it, it is a strong word and probably not the best choice when talking about children.
There may be a smaller amount of concern for children with sports related injuries because there is such a huge amount of medical options that can still make their lives worthwhile. Horses on the other hand, are so much bigger and when they fall, they fall hard and it is a lot easier to pick up a child with a broken leg and take care of it, than it is to pick up a horse with a broken leg and get it to help. Also, many kids with injuries that would cripple a horse are fixed and able to participate in sports again. It is also probably due to the amount of publicity, the race is broadcast on TV and when shit hits the fan, it’s a big deal for a while. I'm sure there are the little leaguers who have severely hurt themselves to the point of never being able to participate in the big leagues, but it’s not being broadcasted on TV. But, their lives also don't depend on being able to complete a physically demanding job. These horse’s lives do depend on being able to complete a job, there are a limited amount of homes willing to take a pasture pal, and kids with injuries can still have a very successful life.
*2manyminis, Frank Whiteley passed away yesterday, the 2nd.
I think MOST of the "Derby level" racehorses that hurt themselves and live, end up in the breeding shed. Much as the kids who destroy themselves end up at 'desk jobs' I know some of those kids....its wild to hear those stories believe me.
No lost sympathy for this mare, only think that this is not the only industry that could use some 'tweaking' and only APPEARS worse than the others due to the publicity given to it.
You'd think Michael Matz, of all people, would be more considerate of horses' development?!?!?!
I mean, he's an Olympic medalist, in a discipline full of older horses (as has been noted here tonight). After Barbaro and now this, I've lost a lot of respect for him, which is too bad, considering he pulled children out of a burning plane wreck some years ago....
The Derby, to me, is kind of analogous to putting a 14 yr old kid in the NBA or NFL. Yeah, a few outstanding prodigies could handle it, but..... why not let 'em grow up and go thru the NCAA first?
Even then, look at Joe freakin' Namath. I saw him in a 60 Minutes interview, and that man has more joint and bone issues....
GAH. This country (world) is full of impatient people out to make a fast buck... on the backs of the innocent.
My dad was one of those kids. He was a hockey player and a tennis player, but hockey was his thing. My grandpa never agreed with it because my grandpa was always a tennis player, Wimbledon qualifier. So my dad was always working extra hard to impress his dad, but he never really could, he used to tell us stories about how he played in Canada in some huge stadium when he was a kid, the maple leave's stadium maybe, I don’t know, I can't remember. And then my dad blew out his ankle and his knee, It ruined him, physically and mentally. He now works property maintenance and construction. He'll sit on the couch watching the hockey just reminiscing about how he almost made it, it is so hard. That's why I despise parents who push too hard. My dad's dad didn't push too hard in the normal sense, but he made my dad push himself, and look what happened, a huge waste of talent. A lot like this filly, and hundreds of other racehorses, most just didn't have another chance at new career, it sucks, and it's depressing to think about it. This is why I wish it would change; wish being the key word there.
Kris - thankyou! i dont actually know much about arabs other than they seem to hold up pretty damn well! Whereas there are so many OTTB that have hoof, leg etc problems, partially due to being stall babies, partially due to not having time to develop and mostly due to breeding such thin light (fast) bones.
While I don't disagree with your analysis that yearling's should be ridden (seems like a big "derrr" kinda thought to me), it is an unfair statement to say racing isn't doing anything about breakdowns. CHRB, California's Legal Body, ruled that all tracks that run for more than 4 consecutive weeks must have a synthetic surface by 2007. Now, all major racetracks have them, and breakdowns have gone down DRASTICALLY within the state. No, they're not perfect, and the horses still come up with soft tissue injuries and other assorted ailments, but the catastrophic breakdowns have been more than cut in half.
Keep in mind, CA has gotten a LOT of flack from the rest of the industry for such a ballsy move, but the horsemens association and the regulatory body here believe strongly in the new footing. We're willing to take the lead on something that is so needed, even if it means all the learning and money-spending will be done by the one jurisdiction (some tracks in other states, KY included, have put in synthetic surfaces as well).
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Ellen Said: "In the footage of Big Brown crossing the finish line, you can see her forelegs in the background -- clearly hotfooting on them, and obviously not sound. She probably pulverized those poor fetlocks in the stretch run."
No offense, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. She did NOT pulverize her ankles in the stretch run. Do you think her jockey would continue to push her as he did if he thought for the slightest moment she was off? You honestly think you have a better knowledge of how she was going, sitting on your ass watching on television, than the man sitting atop her!? Please. I guarantee you it happened in one or two steps, tops. When horses break down THAT badly, it's not a slow, gradual process. It's instantaneous and it is catastrophic.
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Karen V Said: "Are you kidding!?!? Think about it for a second... THIS - Eight Belles and what happened to her - is the REASON why the TB industry pumps out so many babies!
It's a matter of odds. More babies on the ground, more in training, the better the odds that ONE will be great! So horribly sad and senseless."
No, they pump out so many of them because most of the money has shifted to the auction industry, as opposed to the racing industry. I'm not saying this is any better than what you said, but it's different.
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Sweetie'smom Said: "She's also exposing the "blue rooms" where they kill horses. Blue rooms are on every track in the country though it's very hush hush."
Blue rooms exist for the soul purpose of the tragedies we all hate. It's not like they have a secret room where trainers and owners can send horses they just don't want anymore. What your statement implies is on the verge of libel.
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Thunderfugly Said: "There have been intense scientific studies done by established, respected groups showing that bone modeling in a race horse is best done early - but there are good and bad ways to go about it. I'm not trying to argue or start a fight here...
More of the problem lies, I feel, in weanling, yearling and 2 yr old sales prep - it focuses on fast growth, overbulkring and working too FAST too SOON. Improper bone modeling. A horse raised properly, worked properly and conservatively, will be better off."
Couldn't have said it better myself!
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Buckdoff Said: "What just seems so wrong is they are all partying, big celebration, after this horrifying incident."
I understand how you feel, but don't you think it's a little unfair to ask the winning connections of the deserving winner to NOT celebrate. I assure you they're as sad as we all are about Eight Belles, but they have every right to celebrate.
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Ok, honestly, I'm exhausted by defending a sport that hardly deserves it. But please know... I have been a horse racing fan since I was a little'n, and now I work in a position in the industry where I *can* do something. Many of my friends are right there with me, and I promise you we all have every intention of doing everything we can to "fix" racing. The truth is, 99% of the industry loves the horse more than the sport, but racing gets in your blood and you find yourself stuck in it. Yea, that 1% is bad news bears, but *every* industry is that way. I get frustrated when people say "racing people are cruel and greedy and they do all these things wrong" when, in actuality, horse racing has been one of the main reasons we know what we know about horses. We do more studies and more trials than any other discipline I can think of. When Lost In the Fog died of cancer, a HUGE study went into "cancer in horses" and many articles have been written. You'd be hard pressed to find that kind of money and dedication in other horse sports (AQHA excluded, I imagine). Every time a TB is put down or dies in CA, no matter the reason, they are sent to the lab and a study is done. Everything is databased and CA has an amazing grasp on what's happening and the trends. We are *TRULY* trying.
Please stop yourself the next time you want to knock it, and think to yourself, "how much do I actually know about what's going on?"
Since I can't bring myself to read through all these comments, please feel free to email me if I missed something or re-said something or if you want to send me hate mail.
Knowing how much is "too much" is so hard, with human athletes as well as horses.
Were it NOT for youth sports, 3yo races, etc would we have Tiger Woods? LeBron James? Secritariat?
Its a risk, every time we put it out there, horses or humans.....
Breeding specifically for the yearling and 2 yr old in training sales rather than durability, the almost routine use of steroids and other drugs, the use of a large number of stallions who routinely throw soundness compromised foals.
I think the accident today was just another one of those flukey things.
As an illustration, in 1919 Man o'War had 10 starts for a 9/1 record in his 2 yr old year, including Saratoga on 8/2,8/13, 8/13, and Belmont park on 9/13.
In his 3 yr old year he started 11 times, winning all of them: 5/29, 6/12, 7/10, 8/21, 9/4, 8/17, 10/2.
In 1972 Secretariat had 9 starts in his 2 yr old year: 7/4, 7/15, 7/31, 8/16, 8/26, 9/16, 10/14, 10/28, 11/18.
As a 3 yr old he had 12 starts: 3/17, 4/7, 4/21, (TC 5/5, 5/19, 6/9), 6/30, 8/4, 8/15, 9/29, 10/8.
So either they are now so fragile by virtue of genetics or misc drug ingestion or maybe they aren't being worked enough to build stronger bones.
Not taking a stand either way--there are a lot of things I don't like about the tracks, but I sure don't remember going to the races years ago and seeing so many horses break down--and they all had lots of starts at 2 and 3 then.
Betonbill, great stats! Thanks for that.
Secritariat had the best freaking legs I've ever seen on ANY horse. Shown to us in a horse judging class, POST racing career...it was amazing.
Unreal that founder took him out at 19...*sigh*
I had a mare that I bought as a sound 18 year old...with 93 starts. # of starts doesn't necessarily break them down - that old mare was perfectly clean legged. She was a wonder.
I met the owners of Eight Belles on Thursday. They were stoked about their filly and showed me pictures of her on their cell phones. From our conversation about her, I could tell that they loved that horse and cared deeply for her.
The night of her death, I saw some of the same group that were with her owners before, and asked them where the owners were. They were too sad after the race and had decided to stay in their hotel room, instead of coming down with everyone else.
So, these people actually do care about their horse.
***
I would also like to see rules/laws in regards to riding adn competing young horses.
***
As for Big Brown. Man, that is some horse. A derby winner, now.
Too bad he's probably gonna pass on those bad feet on to hundreds of foals. *sigh*
I missed the Derby because we were riding but I guess I am glad I did. What a shame that filly had to be put down.
I'm finding the discussion on the bloodlines interesting because the QH industry can thank a particular TB for many undsoundness issues in his decendents front feet. Generally I don't follow TB bloodlines but I took a look at Eight Belles because line-breeding was mentioned.
Looking at her pedigree, yes there is some line breeding there, but minimal and in the case of Eight Belles dam, Away(that name sounds so familiar) it looked like they tried to add some substance and bone to the mix when they crossed the Mr. Prospector(x Raise A Native/Gold Digger x Nashau)maternal line back onto Dixieland Band(x Northern Dancer/out of a daughter of Native Dancer). Dixieland Band is a gorgeous horse with a lot of bone and substance.
Noteably, Eight Belles sire is Unbridled Song x Unbridled x Frappiano X Mr. Prospector.
Looking at the pictures of Mr. Prospector, he looks over at the knee to me. They did not have a picture of his dam but her sire was Nashau and it looks like he is over at the knee too.
So are all Native Dancer decendents prone to lameness issues or just some? Maybe it has more to do with what he is crossed with than what he passes on by himself...
Just as HYPP can be traced back to Impressive. It wasn't Impressive that caused it, it was the continual inbreeding of his get that caused HYPP to show up. The same with HERDA. There were Poco Bueno horses around for decades without this disease. It showed up when idiots started breeding specifically to increase the percentage of Poco Bueno to 40-50%. Some 40 years after the horse died.
I am sure before long there will be some genetic defect associated with another top line. Not because that horse/color/breed is responsible but because people don't take the time to think about long-term consequences.
Jane Smiley sticks her oar in:
So Young, So Strong, So Fast and Oh So Very Sad
Question: does she always sound that patronizing, or does she just put it on when writing about horses?
The paternal great-grandsire for both the sire and dam for Big Brown is Northern Dancer.
The only other name that I recognize in his bloodline is Bold Ruler(@ 5th generation).
But both the sire and dam have a Round Top daughter being crossed on Damascus on the maternal side.
Round Top is a fine looking horse. I wouldn't have suspected him of being TB. He looks QH.
fuglyhorseoftheday said:
Seriously, if you want to do something to honor this filly? Go save some no-name racehorse. The Enumclaw Auction is tomorrow for those of you in this area - and you can bet that some Emerald Downs throwaways will be there, selling for $300 and under. They didn't break down - at least not bad enough to die - but they are going to die anyway, and a lot worse death than Eight Belles died, if someone doesn't intervene.
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A-FREAKIN'-MEN.
Save another one... or donate some cash/time to a reputable equine rescue.
We love horse racing and were very upset to see such a promising filly go down. We also breed TB's and do our best to breed horses that can run and stay sound. Our stallion is a grandson of Seattle Slew and throws some of the best leggs I've seen on foals. They are NOT spindly little things, they are big boned, big chested, and calm babies. I've seen crazy TBs, two from the same sire, and I know that it's our responsibility to breed a horse that can race and still have a legs to stand on once their racing days are over. We try to breed horses that anyone would want regardless of how well they did on the track. It breaks my heart to see a wonderful horse go down before it's time, but I get so mad when people think that the breeders don't care or that they are just in it for $$$. The majority love their horses and would go without if it were necessary. As in anything were money is involved there will be those who just don't care how they win, as long as they win. Fortunatly they are in the minority. I agree that there should be some changes in the racing industry, but I don't see them coming any time soon. Tradition rules the roost, and changes slow in coming. We wait for our babies to grow up before sending them out to be broke, and they come home to rest afterwards. We don't rush them. We have plans for their futures, and breakdowns are not part of them. I know some of you will hate us just because we breed, but I wish you would give breeders a chance. If you were to visit a breeding farm you would probably find that most owners care very much for their horses and spare no expence on their care.
Majority of horses from any discipline (or byb or whatever) are not crippled 10 year olds or "arthritic 4 - 5 years olds" from reining. They are perfectly healthy and sound horses, usually young. Less than 8 yo.
It's good to get a slam in on other disciplines. The fact of the matter is that most people riding other breeds of horses are not starting them in reining, cutting, eventing, etc. at 18 months. Most MAY do some light riding at 2, actually breaking the horse out at 3.
It seems that with TBs (and someone else already commented that there would basically be no TBs as we know them today without racing), it's the norm to get them going long before they are physically capable.
I don't know much about racing, just what I've read on THIS blog by Fugly and others who appear knowledgeable. I read every post.
Do they start standardbreds for harness racing so terribly young as well?
Racing horses on bute and lasix for decades has got to be a contributory factor.
I don't know that line breeding leads inevitably to bone problems, but line breeding with horses who competed on painkillers will
*sigh*
two horses in two days. i can only hope that this will make the general, equine-uneducated public realize that this happens more frequently than they think. i can only hope they'll think back to Charismatic and Barbaro and go "maybe something's not right".
unfortunately i don't think they'll stop racing two-year-olds (and three-year-olds) until the people betting on and sponsoring races start withholding their money. and that will never happen.
anything for the almighty freaking dollar.
Here's a link for the Wall St. Journal Article on Native Dancer mentioned above:
http://tinyurl.com/6b54yl
Ultimately I think it all comes down to breeding principles that apply to any breed, any discipline. A horse with unsoundness issues, who is forced into early retirement from his discipline by lameness, or who produces foals that don't stay sound IS NOT BREEDING QUALITY, no matter what it accomplished during the two useful, sound years it had.
It happens all the time -- and is understandable in the sense that a performance horse in any discipline is a major investment. If the horse is ruined, it's understandable the owners would wish to recoup some of its value by breeding it, particularly if its performance record makes its foals highly marketable.
Understandable, however, isn't the same as right, for the animals or for the health of the breed or discipline.
As with many animal-related issues, it's important to separate the emotional/sentimental response to something like this from the analytical response that leads to a solution that imporoves things.
I am pretty sure that after Barbaro broke down like he did (with the nation watching the "great horse")
The network people were told to "skip" or "gloss" over any break downs that happened during a nationally televised event. Hence the little to no mention of the filly.
They are started to young. It is a shame and is wrong. But there short of the fed government stepping in and regulating the industry and becoming Big Brother and such. Nothing is going to stop this from happening. The owners have MONEY and LOTS of it. The ones that get their horses to the derby have a few grand in their pockets just for the hell of it. They have the backing of Citgo, Mercedes Benz, Taco Bell. It is called the "Sport of kimgs" Not the sport of the common people for a reason. BYBs do not have the money to get to this level.
Am I saying that only horses that race in grade one stakles break down? No. This happens on the smnaller tracks. But shit like this also happens in riening competitions, edurance and most recently on the national scale Eventing.
I applaud Fugly for blogging about this. But until NO ONE is watching or going to the races. Big tracks or small. Nothing is going to change.
Breeders will keep breeding. Trainers will keep starting them as babies. Same as with the QH people.. and the asshat breeders all over the rest of the country that we see on here constantly.
Its a sad reality folks. But people are really fucking greedy
My OTT TB was one of the "lucky" ones. I bought him as a 4 year old and he "only" had early arthritis in his hocks. I hate the racing industry.
And what will happen with Big Brown? With his crappy feet? Oh, yeah, he'll go to the breeding shed to pass on his speed - maybe - and his crappy feet - probably - to his near cousins. Is there no way to get new blood into the TB breed? Does nobody in the industry ever think about genetics and how bad inbreeding is?
Alison, it does seem sad to me that there was a huge celebration in the wake of this very public tragedy, I don't care whether you think that's ridiculous or not! It has to have cast a pall on the event, I do think you have the right to celebrate a win, just that some reserve is in order. I don't apologize for my statement, if this was an all human event,hockey or basketball, you bet they would have toned it down......
Sweetie's Mom- More about these "Blue Rooms"...Do they kill for insurance $$?
I just read the article by Jane Smiley, UGH, Are you kidding me?
I just read Joe's blog, I agree with his take on the Derby tragedy. He sees the damage done at the track every day.
I'm with you on all major points, again, Fugly. A moderate response to what is a sad deal for sure. And most of the respondees have been measured in their criticism. But for those who can't see it in other terms than good and evil:
Folks, if horsemen like Michael Matz are to be branded evil, greedy, and uncaring there's little hope for the rest of us. When racing is banned dressage and jumping sports will be the next target and with consistent reasoning as the same argument holds. Everything you do with a horse puts him at risk and the disciplines mentioned are particularly severe offenders. I'm not endorsing racing 2's but I only have to live with my own conscience and this doesn't rise to the level of taking it to the streets.
My condolences to all involved.
Sagebrush
The husband and I googled Secratariat and Man O war just to see how tall they were compared to todays racehorses. Couldn't find the height on Man O War but they said he was red and quite large. He was an underweight colt with long spindly legs. It's so interesting to read all of these old articles, Did you all know Man O'War was actually embalmed?
I have been reading this blog for months but never posted. I have never been a competitive person. I have never yearned for a horse who could run faster, jump higher, slide further, spin longer, or sidepass from one side of an arena to another, or look the prettiest with bulging eyes, muscles, and flared nostrils at a show.
I used to live at a horse facility where an ass-hole of a reiner trainer use to train horses. He was the devil incarnate. He would tie a two year olds head to the side of the saddle and leave him like that all day, he would hobble tie a colt in a dark, dank corner of an arena and leave him there all day and night too while he went out chasing women and had affairs in the hay loft, he said it taught them patience, I saw a sad, miserable, and bored horse. He would put them in a round pen and whip the daylights out of them to get respect (as he put it)and he was considered a good trainer and called himself a horse whisperer., (yeah right) in fact here is an article about the ass. You would never imagine he was mean as a snake to horses when no one was watching (except me spying on him behind the curtains of my house.
http://www.seeleyswanpathfinder.com/pfnews/aug98/seimens.html
I wish we could all enjoy our horses more for who they are instead of what we wish they could be. They can't all be champion this or that. I think the drive to have the "champion of whatever" is one of the reasons horses end up at the slaughter houses. A person feels they have to breed 20-100 (saw plenty of this in Texas) and find "the one" that might make it, to hell with the others.
I am a trailrider, I love to take my horses out and share the day with them, us just ambling happily along. That is all I want, nothing more.
At least this tragic event is getting some questioning in the national press:
http://tinyurl.com/5kub86
I missed the race yesterday and am glad I did. I felt literally sick when my DH read the headlines to me later.
There's not one major change that will help this situation but a lot of smaller ones that could improve the odds:
-start horses at 2
-limit drugs
-make public the bloodlines that have soundness problems
-new track surfaces used widely
With all the public attention racing has gotten in the last two years, even the most hidebound must at least have a tiny idea that things have to change or the industry is done. People are more concerned about animal welfare than they were even 25 years ago, and racing needs to understand this and put things into action. Otherwise fans are going to say enough is enough and turn away.
RIP poor girl, you were beautiful...
I can't watch racing anymore after the doomed Breeder's Cup about 10 years ago. This race smacks of Ruffian. What a waste of superior horse flesh, on both counts. Imagine if these two mares had lived to produce.
Sagesbrusheq, I think just about all of us have been reasonable here. Some, like me, know little about the sport of racing, and some of it just seems insane to me. It's just kind of shocking to click on the set and see a horse crumple up and be put down. For me it was shocking, I called my husband at the Sox game, even he was surprised, we are novices, this how we react...
ellen says
Ultimately I think it all comes down to breeding principles that apply to any breed, any discipline. A horse with unsoundness issues, who is forced into early retirement from his discipline by lameness, or who produces foals that don't stay sound IS NOT BREEDING QUALITY, no matter what it accomplished during the two useful, sound years it had.
That's it exactly! Taking a 3 or 4 year old that's come up lame and retiring him to stud is such a bad breeding decision. The TB industry has been breeding for breakdowns and this is the result. Maybe it is not really worse now than it was maybe it's just publicity, but in any case I cannot see how breeding unsound (even just 'unsound for racing') horses will benefit the breed overall and build stronger horses for racing.
I looked at the pics of Eight Belles someone else posted. She's beautiful, but look at those front pasterns! They're long and they look weak. Poor girl.
I love horses, have for as long as I can remember, but have always been troubled by the human element involved in competing with them.
I completely agree that it should be socially unacceptable to ride 1-2yos.
Unfortunately though, money talks. It may be the industry that needs to change to bring the wider change about, they could start by not holding big purse races (like the Derby) for 2-3 yos,
Very sad.
according to Secretariat.com he was 16.2 and 1200 pounds.
I think people, horse lovers, should stop watching the races. Boycott them.
I could not find the height of Man o' War, tried googling, got OTHER stuff, not horse related.....
You know they're too young to be ridden when they're still called "fillies" and "colts."
Interesting point from Joe's blog today:
"On our ranch if I rode a horse into the ground and the horse broke both front ankles, I would be arrested. Jail time. 3 meals and an old National Geographic. Cathy could come see me every Sunday.
At the race track you can ride a horse into the ground and the camera shows her lying dead on the track. No one is arrested. Legalized animal abuse."
I have to agree - perhaps it's a rough analogy, but human offspring at age 2 are considered toddlers, and we don't go putting them into a soccer or football league at that age...
"I could not find the height of Man o' War, tried googling, got OTHER stuff, not horse related....."
Can't find my copy of Nack's autobiography of Secretariat, but I do believe it mentioned Man 'O War's height as part of comparison between the two, and Gallant Fox.
But Man 'o War was about 16.1, I think.
Ruffian was before my time... what happened?
"I feel REAL bad for the trainer who was shown in the pre-derby features galloping the filly, talking to her during their morning gallop...cooing to her. Watching her keeping an ear to every word the older gent said"
YabBUT -- that trainer is NOT a jockey-sized person. He isn't fat -- but he is broad-shouldered rather than having a slight-build, and he's quite tall (notice in the photo in the blog -- that's a 17-hand filly!). He was her exercise rider, which means he rode her not only for gallops, but also for full-speed works.
Even the TB industry recognizes the effect of weight (see Handicapping). Loving her should have meant STAYING OFF HER BACK.
Loving her also should have been NOT RACING HER AS A BABY! When you can call her a 'mare' and not a 'filly', its time to ride her.
Sweetie's Mom-
She's also exposing the "blue rooms" where they kill horses. Blue rooms are on every track in the country though it's very hush hush.
What exactly are blue rooms?
There is a comment going on about whether racing (applies elsewhere also) is "breeding to race or racing to breed." With the popular stallions breeding 100+ mares each year this narrows the available gene pool significantly, especially when many of these popular stallions also pass on major unsoundness problems.
Race horses have always (at least in the last century) run as 2 yr olds. However, what they did not do was train at speed for those 2 yr olds in training auctions with steroids to beef them up and they did not have the emphasis on the Breeder's Cup 2 yr old division at the end of the year.
Look at old racing books and you will see that many of the great runners ran many races in their 2 yr old years--but they also had many, many months of long, slow gallops to build up bone, muscle, and endurance before their first starts, probably in July or August of their 2 yr old years.
Triple Crown winner Count Fleet (1940) had 15 starts at 2, 6 starts at 3. Equipoise (1928) had 16 starts at 2, 3 at 3, 14 at 4, 9 at 5, 6 at 6, 3 at 7. Exterminator (1915 gelding) had 100 starts from ages 2-9, 4 at 2, 15 at 3, 21 at 4, 17 at 5, etc., Whirlaway (1938) had 60 starts from 2-5, including 16 at 2, 20 at 3, 22 at 4, 2 at 5.
Training methods and emphasis on speed at early ages are the real killers, not merely racing at 2. Concentrating your genetic pool to colts that are big and attractive as yearlings, lightning fast as 2 yr olds but not basically bred for soundness lands you in this pickle.
The same could probably be said for horses that look pretty in the halter classes but can't ride worth a damn.
This is a little OT, but it's not just the attitude in the racing industry or any horse industry to start them young. It's more of a societal impulse to win, make money, be the best, etc.
Look at sports such as gymnastics. How WRONG is it to see 10 yr old girls with wrapped ankles, knees, elbows and wrists? That's a situation in which parents let their CHILDREN get injured and used up too fast because, well, lithe young girls can do those flips and jumps better than a young teen with boobs and hips. But that doesn't make it right.
As a society, we need to learn that MORE is not always better, that it's the *quality* of life that counts. If that was more important than profit, then horses wouldn't be raced so young, TWH wouldn't be sored, etc. because their welfare would be more important than the profits they could generate.
auroraborealis said...
There was an article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday about Native Dancer. Stressed in the article was how many of Native Dancer's offspring had soundness issues...bad feet and legs.
My friend has a TB who was supposed to race, and she has Native Dancer in her lines. She's all of 5 or 6, and already has arthritus (sp? sorry)in a leg, and developing in random other legs/joints. And she was just trained for it, never even raced.
sellefrancais,
Ruffian was a filly that lost her life in 1975 during a match against Foolish Pleasure. She suffered a horrifying break while onlookers watched....(Go For Wands breakdown was at least as bad to see...horrifying is the only word I can think of). They tried to save Ruffian but she came out of anestesia fighting and broke the cast they'd just put on her leg. She was euthanized. I was 9 and remember my grandpa and cousin sitting in silence watching that unfold.
"anyway, I just want to say that Larry Jones (trainer) is a really good horseman,"
Who WEIGHS far too much to be riding a 17-hand three year old in May!
Y'all need to remember that a human at 3 is NOT equivalent to a horse at 3.... I'm not saying I think horses should race that young, but you absolutely cannot directly compare human toddlers to horses of the same age. Horse mature much faster. Makes you look silly to try to compare apples to oranges like that.
That said, does anyone know if there's a video of the actual breakdown somewhere, on youtube or something? I want to see what happened...
I just think that common sense tells you that when a fit five year old horse breaks both ankles playing in the pasture and stepping in a hole, that's an accident. A three year old that I will bet you money was still butt-high breaking both ankles because you ran her in a race and whipped her trying to win it, well, that's not EXACTLY an accident.
The one thing that does irk me about the race industry is their insistence that the horses LOVE to run. Every other discipline seems to accept that horses, given their choice, would sit in a field and EAT and play with their friends and maybe gallop when the mood struck them. It is only racing that seems to NEED the justification that the horses LOVE the sport. No, they don't. If they really wanted to run faster than all of the others, then make whips illegal and see how you do. That'll show you which horses really love to run. Bet I won't see that ever happen.
You are absolutely correct in that the major contributor to these horrific accidents is the stress of early competition riding.
I have no problem with starting a long yearling with groundwork and a few easy rides, then turning them back into pasture to mature--maybe with a few rides every so often. They start easier, and when you pull them back out of pasture as two year-olds, they seem to have thought about the whole experience while they were grazing, because they are pretty easy to work with: they were not stressed by the early experience, and it is "ho hum" to them to advance their training.
However, we refused to put our cutting horses into training until they were three years old. They did not win their three-year-old futurities, but they each made a good showing--and they are still sound at seven and eight years old.
A guy who raises AQHA cutting horses stopped by here yesterday admiring our horses. He strongly disagreed with that concept. "Can't do that." he said. "Gotta start 'em young, get 'em in the pen cutting in the first thirty days, find out if they have it, and if not turn 'em into reiners or penners. I'm in the business to make money and you have to find out early." Yep. He raises $30,000 and $40,000-plus horses. He went on to cite the statistics that maybe fifty to a hundred out of the 1200+ that enter the Cutting Futurity in Fort Worth ever go on to make it as "real" cutters. He ignored my question as to how many of his horses were sound at five and six year's old--but didn't disagree that six is pretty much over the hill for most race horses and cutters so far as performance.
Racing as a three year old might not be so bad if they didn't already have the snot run out of them as two year olds. Starting them as long yearlings and two-year olds would also not be so bad if the goal was simply to teach them a few basics and lope them a bit--heck, they lope and gallop in the pasture. But as a teen-ager I rode my share of those very young Thoroughbreds for local racetrackers, and the goal was to get them to break out of the gallop into a dead run. I weighed 98 pounds, would ride anything, and had a knack for getting them to break. And, I have to say, it was a thrill. (That was all pre-female jockey days, however, so I never rode one out of the gate.)
Big Brown, I noted, had only been raced three times prior to the Derby. Gotta wonder if his owner has some common sense and started him "late."
Sellefrancais;
Be thankful you haven't seen it. She broke down in a match race. It was heartbreaking to say the least. It stands out as one of the more memorable catastrophies because as a fillie that won everything in sight she was much loved and the race was watched by the whole nation. The footage is horribly graphic. You don't want to go there. I've held my breath at every race ever since, much like space shuttle launches.
S.
"You'd think Michael Matz, of all people, would be more considerate of horses' development?!?!?! (snip) After Barbaro and now this, I've lost a lot of respect for him,"
?? What does Michael Matz have to do with Eight Belles, please?
equisoup - I don't know what you're reading but Away was born in 1997, making her 8 years old when she had Eight Belles.
Thunderfugly Said: "There have been intense scientific studies done by established, respected groups showing that bone modeling in a race horse is best done early - but there are good and bad ways to go about it. I'm not trying to argue or start a fight here..."
Yes, indeed, early work is good -- but those studies all recommend NON-WEIGHTBEARING WORK -- They especially liked driving. :)
"Buckdoff Said: "What just seems so wrong is they are all partying, big celebration, after this horrifying incident."
I understand how you feel, but don't you think it's a little unfair to ask the winning connections of the deserving winner to NOT celebrate. I assure you they're as sad as we all are about Eight Belles, but they have every right to celebrate."
No, they were not regretful. I'll refer you all back to Barbaro's breakdown in the Preakness -- the winning owners were certainly joyful, but also RESPECTFUL. No whooping.
These people were not impressive. How many times have we heard the answer to the question "What's next for Winner?" be "First we have to see how he cools out, then we'll consider our next move." Not these yahoos: The answer was "we can't wait to get to Pimlico!"
Good thing the Preakness isn't NEXT weekend ...
Bcukdoff, I didn't mean to leave you feeling attacked. You certainly can feel whatever way you do, and that's your prerogative. I feel like this blog is an excellent open forum where we can all share our opinions in a healthy, not derogatory manner, and that's why I did.
My point was that it's unfair to the owners of Big Brown to ask them not to celebrate. Yesterday was, by far, the greatest day of their lives. Regardless of all the spew going on around the world and the internet. And I guarantee they feel horrible about what happened to Eight Belles, and it's probably constantly at the back of their minds, already putting a dullness to their celebration. They don't need random people who know nothing about their industry telling them they're not guilty enough.
" Is there no way to get new blood into the TB breed? Does nobody in the industry ever think about genetics and how bad inbreeding is?"
Nope. The stud books are closed. The blood gets closer and closer -- a substantial *majority* of TBs all have the same sireline (that is, the sire's sire's sire's sire and so on all trace to the same foundation stallion), there are only three sirelines TOTAL in the breed, and one of those is nearly extinct.
It's breeding for speed without consideration for soundness, durability, good feet, etc., and it's too late to change -- as if they would, because the most speed is in that sireline, for now.
It's happening very rapidly, in historical terms -- as recently as the 1940s, TBs had FIVE extant sirelines.
If you watch the replay of the Ky Derby, you can see Eight Belles taking a misstep in the last stretch. It is about the time that Big Brown is really pulling away to the finish. It breaks my heart that that poor filly ran the rest of the race and the cool down lap on HEART and adrenaline. What a fabulous mare and what a damn dirty shame she was ruined. She is an example of what is wrong with starting and running so young. -- all the 3 year olds running are at the same risk. I watched with my 10-year old daughter. I haven't watched a Derby in years. I'm sorry I had to explain that the mare was immediately euthanized to my daughter. So sad. It put a damper on the whole thing even though Big Brown was beautiful and a fine horse. Too bad he will now proliferate those shitty hooves as a sire.
SelleFrancais - The most important fact left out is that Ruffian was perhaps one of the best race horses in history. She broke records where and when she raced and was undefeated, even against the boys. She was HUGE, and drop dead gorgeous, and tons of heart. Sort of like this filly.
Lythinae said...
Does anyone know what bones/structures were involved beside 'ankles'
And then I read this:
'There have been studies done on this. They've found it is better for the horses to run young. There is a higher proportion of break-downs in horses that did not run at 2. Stressing the bones allows for bone molding (the bones grow thinker in the areas with the most stress) which makes for sounder horses in the long run."
Lythinae,
I think you are referring to a study done at Texas A&M that I was a part of. You are misinterpreting the data. What we discovered is that young horses (age 2) have a better ability to remodel bone in response to stress. An older horse (age 4+) does not have the same ability to rapidly remodel and strengthen their bones in response to hard impact running.
What we conlcuded is that young 2 year olds need to be stressed (i.e. run fast and hard) for 2 or 3 days and then given 30 days off in order to let the bone remodel. Rinse and repeat for a good 10 to 12 months and you have a 3-4 year old who has remodeled their cannon bones in such as way that they can handle the rigors of racing.
The study did not state that it was ok to race the heck out of 2 year olds. When a 2 year old is raced constantly, the bone never gets that 30-40 days to remodel fully and is actually weaker causing catastrophic breakdowns.
Here is the information you were looking for on Man O' War:
Not only did Man o' War perform like a superstar on the track, the chestnut-colored horse (though he was nicknamed "Big Red") looked like one. At 3, he was a strapping 16.2 hands (about 5-foot-6) and weighed about 1,125 pounds with a 72-inch girth. His appetite also was huge, as he ate 12 quarts of oats every day, or about three quarts more than the average racehorse. He ran in big bounds as well, with his stride measuring an incredible 25 to 28 feet.
Samantha, is there a gradual build up to the first run hard for 2-3 days? I would assume that there is to reduce the possibility of injuries. Just curious. What you said makes sense and it is unfortunate people don't take the time to do it so that their horses can last and have a possible second carreer other than breeding when they are done racing.
I have a general question though, I have read all of the comments and a lot of people have said that the owners care about the horses more than they care about the money, the minority is the greedy party. So, if the majority are for the horses and not for the money, why is change so hard? Why wouldn't the majority realize that starting the horses later, breeding better, slower training, be better for the horses and embrace a change in the way things are done? They are the majority based on what a lot of people have said, so who do they have to contend with?
Racing is the one sport that doesn't have a true division of amateur and professional.
Sure, you have the Jane - I'mafuckinghypocrite - Smiley, but she used professionals.
She bitched about long feet, used her horse psychotic...er...psychic, and dinked around with the inner workings of the horse's mind.
But she sold it down the pike, too.
They are in it for the money. Purely. Fancy discussions about nobility and all that rot don't do a thing to explain riding them as yearlings and running their legs off by the time they are done with the sport.
I don't watch racing. My old trainer was an ex-cavelry officer. He hated horse racing. This was back in the 80's. He was an old man. He had a granddaughter of Man o' War as a pleasure horse.
Racing wraps itself in some sort of wonderful history. Well, it's shed a lot of that common sense because it is an INDUSTRY and not a sport.
Eventing's tragedies don't compare. At all.
Someone has to have the stones to just not race them so early. Not to breed matchstick legs because they are faster horses.
Someone. But who?
Godspeed Eight Belles. You should have been at pasture right now. Then broke at 4 and made into a really nice horse.
cuillin -that's why I qualified my statement as a 'rough' analogy.
If ya'll are concerned about how silly or not silly this issue is, have a look at Dr. Deb Bennet's article, which offers a pretty concise analysis of equine growth. Dr Deb Article
And, for some really great bedside reading, you can google things like 'Comparative Skeletal Growth Rates in Mammalian Vertebrates', 'Allometric Scaling' and other silly stuff like that.
thunderfugly said...
scorpio - what are you talking about when you say she raced the day before the derby? She may have been out on the track the day before - would you rather she spent 24 hours in her stall? - but she didn't race.
If you're going to demonize her connections, you probably ought to know what you're talking about.
Ouch! Back off chick! No need to be so mean.
The commentators on our local station said that Eight Bells had been raced the day before. I was going by this comment.
If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.
But if it's true, I believe, but may be like you implied, I'm stupid, but young horses need a break between races.
NO, I don't think she should be in her stall 24 hours a day. Again, she should have had a break between races.
'Scuse me for living.
amorgan4me said...
scorpiostinger said...
...I don't think the staff for Eight Bells cared about her at all. I think that they are callous, unfeeling jackasses who should be drummed out of racing.
OK. You race a filly the day before the KY Derby, then you push her and push her in the Derby. Two races in two days and the 2nd race is a mile long. No wonder she broke down.
No - thant's not correct. They PULLED her from a race the day before. It doesn't make it right but I've no doubt all the folks who were involved with Eight Belles felt terrible about what happened.
Thank you for correcting me...I appreciate your polite kindness in doing so.
More than I could say for the other person who slammed me so hard.
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