Disclaimer for those of you who are easily confused and angered...I personally do not have any experience with Tennessee Walking Horses. Never been on one, not once. Have been to a TWH show but have never worked at a TWH barn. So this is a guest blog from someone who has done those things. Here's what I do know. The TWH shows are notorious for abuse. Always have been. Has it changed? I don't know. You tell me, if you are involved.
I also know that this is another breed where riding yearlings and young 2's is rampant and there is a lot of money in winning the 2 year old stuff. You all know my opinion on that.
Oh, and now we're on to my personal opinion...I just plain think they look fucking ridiculous. Sorry. It's a nice breed of horse. I'm not bashing the breed, not a bit. The ones that are flat shod look like they'd be lovely pleasure horses.
How to sore a TWH - read the comments, they're REALLY educational.
Interesting reading for the legal types - the appellate court smacks down an exhibitor who got the boot for soring.
Kudos to Friends of Sound Horses - a group that is trying to end soring and encourage the natural exhibition of the Tennessee Walking Horse. They are outing abusers by publishing the suspension lists on their web site and you guys KNOW how much I LOVE people with the guts to do that! Bet they get a lot of lawsuit threats, too!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a reader:
My first horse was a TWH but not the quality that would do well in the ring. So after being around the shows for a couple of years I decided that I would buy a baby and bring her up starting with halter. I sided up to a friend who has been training for many years and she agreed to help me with B____. I also had another horse, a 4 yr old that I had been trail riding for a year that was a very Pacey horse. Most of the horses that are pacey can be worked with to make a good gate. So we started B____ learning halter, and R____ learning how to walk like a walker.
What I didn't know was what she was doing to her horses in addition to what we were doing when I was there. So here is the bloody truth of the walking horse industry.
To get the horses that are "straight going" = tends to trot to swing = lateral movement. They will put chains on the back legs to change their balance and make them reach up under themselves. This is not a terrible thing. It does tend to make the pastern area tender from the movement of the chain.
To get a horse that are pacey or have to much "Swing" they will put heavy shoes on the front and use rollers or chains to "Square" the horse up.
Now these are flat shod horses. The ones who are swinging to just right in the square department. They use chains and rollers to enhance their movement.
I admit I did all of these things because there is no permanent damage, and it doesn't make them sore, however there are the "other things" I mentioned.
I didn't realize what the leg wraps were for and it wasn't until almost the end of the first show season that I finally discovered what it was all about.
What I didn't know was what she was doing to her horses in addition to what we were doing when I was there. So here is the bloody truth of the walking horse industry.
To get the horses that are "straight going" = tends to trot to swing = lateral movement. They will put chains on the back legs to change their balance and make them reach up under themselves. This is not a terrible thing. It does tend to make the pastern area tender from the movement of the chain.To get a horse that are pacey or have to much "Swing" they will put heavy shoes on the front and use rollers or chains to "Square" the horse up.
Now these are flat shod horses. The ones who are swinging to just right in the square department. They use chains and rollers to enhance their movement.
I admit I did all of these things because there is no permanent damage, and it doesn't make them sore, however there are the "other things" I mentioned.
I didn't realize what the leg wraps were for and it wasn't until almost the end of the first show season that I finally discovered what it was all about.
Kerosene, Diesel, Mustard Oil, koppertox, and other harsh chemicals are placed in the pocket of the front feet just above the cornet band and in the small crack going down to the frog. Then they wrap the leg in plastic wrap, with a quilt and leg wrap over that. The horse will stand with this on their legs for 23 of 24 hours. They take them off to work the horse the next day and often put them back on. They will do this the week or so before the show. Horses that are shown every weekend are subject to this every they get over being sore and the effect on their gait wears off.
Most of the horses skin peels, cracks, and bleeds. After the horse has been "sored" they often won't stand at all in their stalls, because their feet hurt so bad. When they come out of their stalls they can barely walk and the trainers will whip their legs to make them move on. The can't stand still in the cross ties because their feet hurt so they shift back and forth. Now while the horses are sore they apply the rollers and chains to make the horse show more action in the front and "teach" them how to "go".
The horses that you see the most are the padded horses, they are the ones that have the huge front leg lift. They do the same things to these horses to a greater degree. They also do other cruel things, like pressure shoes, and bands.
Pressure shoes have bebe's welded to the underside (next to the hoof) at the white line area. So that when the shoe is applied it puts pressure on the white line and makes the horse "hot footed" so they will spend a short time with that foot on the ground when gaiting. They will often do it in addition to light chemical use because it doesn't show up as easily. They can put pressure on the foot without causing bleeding or scars.
The Bands are placed across the top of the hoof to help hold the shoes on because the shoes are very very heavy. Some flat shod horses have bands because they are considered lite shod but the shoes are still very heavy.
The Bands can and do often put pressure on the hoof wall and can make the hoof break off. Especially when the toe is grown out to 6 or 8 inches. This is often the practice because it again changes the break over of the foot and makes the horse have to pick up the foot higher in order to clear the ground. It also speeds up the front feet in order to get them out of the way for the back foot to come down under it.
There are of course other things that I don't know, but what I have witnessed make me pull my B____ out of the big shows when she was two because it was clear that in order to win I would have to participate in these practices. Now keep in mind I wouldn't subject any horse to this kind of treatment but B____ is my baby. I purchased her when she was 4 weeks old. I went to the farm at least once a week to play with her or just be close to her until she was old enough to be weaned. When she was four months old I brought her home and she has been with me since. I did take her to a trainer when she was two because I didn't think I could "finish" her, but she stayed there for two weeks and the trainer told me that I could leave her but it would be a waste. He wished that all the two year olds knew as much as she did when he got them.
During the two years before I got B____ and the time after I poured myself into every book, or, article I could find to learn health care, training, and just anything I could so that my horses wouldn't end up like the ones that we see on the rescue site.
There is more to tell but it I can't remember it all I am sure as I think about it I will remember.
Oh, speaking of.... Blinders... half and full. They use them to keep the horse from seeing the ground so they will pick up their feet. The goal is to get the horse to break level or above with their knees I have witnessed a horse in full blinders because he would tuck his nose to far toward his chest so he could see over the blinders.
There are over checks to keep them from getting their heads down to far
Long shank bits to make them hold their nose in and break at the pole. Twisted curb chains to keep them from breaking gait.
And it goes on and on.
Most of the horses skin peels, cracks, and bleeds. After the horse has been "sored" they often won't stand at all in their stalls, because their feet hurt so bad. When they come out of their stalls they can barely walk and the trainers will whip their legs to make them move on. The can't stand still in the cross ties because their feet hurt so they shift back and forth. Now while the horses are sore they apply the rollers and chains to make the horse show more action in the front and "teach" them how to "go".
The horses that you see the most are the padded horses, they are the ones that have the huge front leg lift. They do the same things to these horses to a greater degree. They also do other cruel things, like pressure shoes, and bands.
Pressure shoes have bebe's welded to the underside (next to the hoof) at the white line area. So that when the shoe is applied it puts pressure on the white line and makes the horse "hot footed" so they will spend a short time with that foot on the ground when gaiting. They will often do it in addition to light chemical use because it doesn't show up as easily. They can put pressure on the foot without causing bleeding or scars.
The Bands are placed across the top of the hoof to help hold the shoes on because the shoes are very very heavy. Some flat shod horses have bands because they are considered lite shod but the shoes are still very heavy.
The Bands can and do often put pressure on the hoof wall and can make the hoof break off. Especially when the toe is grown out to 6 or 8 inches. This is often the practice because it again changes the break over of the foot and makes the horse have to pick up the foot higher in order to clear the ground. It also speeds up the front feet in order to get them out of the way for the back foot to come down under it.
There are of course other things that I don't know, but what I have witnessed make me pull my B____ out of the big shows when she was two because it was clear that in order to win I would have to participate in these practices. Now keep in mind I wouldn't subject any horse to this kind of treatment but B____ is my baby. I purchased her when she was 4 weeks old. I went to the farm at least once a week to play with her or just be close to her until she was old enough to be weaned. When she was four months old I brought her home and she has been with me since. I did take her to a trainer when she was two because I didn't think I could "finish" her, but she stayed there for two weeks and the trainer told me that I could leave her but it would be a waste. He wished that all the two year olds knew as much as she did when he got them.
During the two years before I got B____ and the time after I poured myself into every book, or, article I could find to learn health care, training, and just anything I could so that my horses wouldn't end up like the ones that we see on the rescue site.
There is more to tell but it I can't remember it all I am sure as I think about it I will remember.
Oh, speaking of.... Blinders... half and full. They use them to keep the horse from seeing the ground so they will pick up their feet. The goal is to get the horse to break level or above with their knees I have witnessed a horse in full blinders because he would tuck his nose to far toward his chest so he could see over the blinders.
There are over checks to keep them from getting their heads down to far
Long shank bits to make them hold their nose in and break at the pole. Twisted curb chains to keep them from breaking gait.
And it goes on and on.
323 comments:
Dear God. What the hell is the point? You can't ride those horses like that on a trail or in the mtns or even across town to the arena. There's NO REASON for them do that to those horses! I think that's what makes me the maddest--it's ridiculous, it's stupid, and t's utterly pointless!
That 4th horse in the ring, that man's legs are halfway to the ground, and she looks tiny! I know that every show world has bad "tips & tricks", but this is appalling.
Have you ever seen this site? I guarantee you will like it: http://www.walkinonranch.com/1999Celebration.html
I have NEVER understood the TWH industry. The entire "Big lick" part of it seems to be all ABOUT cruelty to horses. I have no clue how anyone could possibly show in that and sleep at night. Just disgusting and horrible.
I'll never get over the TWH industry.
Insanity.
Holy Crap! I'd heard about soring, knew alittle, but really had no idea the extent, or the 'science' it is. Enough to make you want to hurl.
When I was a kid, my brother had a TWH. Great horse. He paced. Was a blast to ride. You could cover some ground. I had a welsh pony. His horse would pace, mine would canter to keep up. lol I'm glad he was never a show horse. This was back in the late '60's. Maybe they didn't do this then?
Remember the days long ago when the Humane Society or another such group stepped in and layed down the law on the cruel and unusual pinishment these horses endured at the hands of their trainers...
There was mention somewhere here before about golf balls placed in the frog area between the hoof and padded weighted shoes for the same effect.
It is truly a testament to the sanity of the breed as a whole, that these horses do not stomp the living shit out of the humans who do these things to them. Or kick their asses over the moon, turning more violent and unmanagable than they do.
I have ridden a couple of TN. Walkers as well as a few other gaited breeds. They are the most sane and sensible horses on the planet! They will put up with far more stupid shit than most other horses ever would. As evidence by todays post.
And Kudos! to the guest blogger for pulling your horse out of the hands of these asshats. I'm sure it goes without saying you will enjoy your horse long after many of her show horse counterparts are fried mentally or physically.
I worked a trail barn that funded a Saddlebred farm ... we would get the culls.
It was always sad to walk past the dimly lit stalls and here the clanking of chains. I don't know why the chained their horses.
But they also used some sort of rubber band contraption to "help" them gait. Oh, and I'm sure their tail sets were natural, no mustard there.
I was always so happy to get a "cull." I love Saddlebreds ... and it was so sad to see them the way they were treated. All the culls would come over to us hot and bit sour ... very sad
I dont even understand why this kind of stuff still exists. Isn't knowingly putting an animal in pain against the law in most places? I guess its just tradition and people are good enough at hiding it... but I mean, so many people know about it... you'd think authorities would be cracking down on it better. I think its absolutely disgusting... the whole big lick thing. I disagree with a lot of things in saddleseat too...
I have been waiting for this topic to come up!
How about doing an expose of Big Name Trainers who have been convicted of soring?
Or people like David Boggs who have been convicted of surgically altering their horses?
The people who participate in the this are NOT horsemen, and should have their names posted on every possible horse site so the world knows them for the heartless bastards they are! The people who know and do/say nothing should have to experience the pain the horses feel so they will never again sit by and do nothing.
...I'm going out to hug my horses now.
I love TWH.
I have 3, 4 if you count the one-eyed gelding my friend now loves and rides.
When I look out in the pasture, and the herd is on the move, the gait that you see in the video is what mine put on the ground...naturally. Gee. Guess what. They were BRED to do that, without embellishment or tricks.
I'm all for the Breeder's Association to start an inspection process for gait. If the horse doesn't do it naturally, then they aren't breeding quality walkers. Raise the cost of papers? So be it. Gee, maybe as a side effect there wouldn't be so many crappy looking, sloppy moving TWH bred.
They could cure the black eye of the industry if they wanted to, just by putting their damn money where their mouth is.
I'm also for moving the big money in shows away from the Big Lick and back to the NATURAL gait that we all claim is the way God intended for riding horses to move anyway.
There's a $10K reward for whistleblowers for soring right now. That's enough to make you want to go undercover and nail the bastards. $10K buys a lot of hay.
that is SO DISGUSTING.
my first mare was a TWH and she was the sweetest, most willing horse i've ever met. shame on those wicked people for taking advantage of the breed's inherent tolerance. she was barefoot most of the time i owned her, and when i was doing a lot of riding on gravel, i had regular ol' light horse shoes (not TWH shoes of any sort) put on her. she was naturally nicely gaited and i rode her in a snaffle bit. i had ridden huntseat horses all my life and the gait was a delight, and not something i ever worked on to enhance or encourage.
UGH. what these people do to those poor horses is sickening, really and truly. hell is not hot enough for them. and for what? to have a horse that toddles around a ring for 3 minutes looking like it has a hot poker up its ass? i don't get it at all.
/rant over. (but the bitterness remains...)
I'm not into the gaited horses myself, but I wanted my first horse to be a TWH or a Foxtrotter. Just hearing of their wonderful personalities and they ways sounded like a well trained horse of these breeds would do me some good for riding. Never found one, but will always be interested in one.
It's a shame at what is happening to them. I wish everyone would wise up and stop placing these obviously unnatural moving horses. If the gait is so natural, work with what you have, don't go off hurting them. That video of people saying the 4 oz chains don't hurt. A 4 oz bracelet on my own arm rubs and starts to get uncomfortable after awhile when fitted, so why is it any different for them?
I remember being in Horse Production and Management class and some gaited fan came in saying the government shut this whole show down for no reason, and how soring isn't that bad and blah blah. Maybe we should start putting those chemicals on their asses, and put them on regular horses so they are more willing to post at the trot and not hunch over. I have bad posture, but goodness!
I don't like the show gaits, and never will. What purpose does it serve, really? You going to teach the horse karate? If that's the case, I'm sure we can name a few horse people we could send our new karate trained horses to go pummel.
I LOVE my Walkers. What a strong, tolerant breed.
I do not understand the mentality that thinks the "Big Lick" is cool, or pretty, or desirable in any way.
Zhenya said...
"i had regular ol' light horse shoes (not TWH shoes of any sort)"
All of mine are keg shod during riding season. Regular old shoes.
I do have one trim issue...one of my mares takes a bit longer toe than you typically see to get her moving at her best.
(Oh, and I meant the SECOND video in my first post.)
I know a few TWH, one that has never been shown, just treated like a Horse, he is absolutely wonderful, a great ride, very sane and intelligent. Friend of mine got another one from a rescue, also a very sweet guy and wonderful to ride. We do not know his exact background, but man, it is a load of work just to pick his hoofs. Even at his age (19+)and years of being treated kindly, he does not want his legs or feet touched. He will eventually give in, but you have to work for it. Poor guy.
Please someone explain to me why they all ride slumped over? Every TWH show I have ever been to they ride like that!
As for ASBs- I have seen them kept locked up in dark stalls & when they drag them out at shows they are sprayed in the face with a fire extenguisher. No wonder the poor things always look scared out of their minds!
FHOTD,
You have touched on one of my major pet peeves. I had never really seen or dealt with padded up TWHs until I moved to Virginia.
What I have seen in the past 9 years has horrified me.
TWHs are routinely started under saddle at 18 months. And for some reason the trainers starting them are usually great big men that were line backers in a previous life. The bits they put on these babies make me shudder. Twisted wire gag/curbs with 4 to 8 inch shanks. My horses would fall over dead if I put such a thing in their mouths.
At the shows the padded walkers constantly shift their weight because of their painful feet. Their mouths are foamy and sometimes have sores at the lip edges and chin areas. Their hind legs tremble and look like they will collapse.
Ex padded horses have a myriad of back and stifle problems. They are also usually head cases. They simply do not understand being ridden without being abuse. Their mouths are like iron and their tongues are often scarred, or cut, across the middle.
I'm not above berating the buggers that pad horses. When I do get on someone's ass I hear these responses:
The pads are just like a woman wearing high heels, it doesn't hurt.
Well here's a clue for your stupid butt: Podiatrists have been speaking out against high heels for years because of the back and knee problems they cause. Furthermore I don't know a single woman that wears her high heels for 24/7.
The chains are just like a lady wearing a bracelet or watch. They don't really hurt.
Got news for you buster: I've worn watches and bracelets for 40 years. I have NEVER had a bleeding sore from either. I also don't wear them loose enough to bang the hell out of my bony wrists.
The bits aren't cruel, they promote lifting the head and natural style.
Right! Because mild bits cause bleeding and the tongue to swell. I personally think there needs to be a special place in hell for people that use twisted wire gag bits. Adding a curb function to the gag should be an executional offense. I've ridden everything from polo horses to cross country jumpers to barrel horses in bitless bridles. I'd had some that get strong and agreesive on the field, but none of them needed their tongues sawed off with a twisted wire curb/gag. TWH trainers use those sorry assed bits because they promote fear and agitation.
You have to start them young in order to keep control
Oh, to be sure. Because breaking down an 18 month old colt sure gives you the upper hand. It's hard to buck when a 200 pound beast of a man is jerking the crap out of you. I've started horses that were pasture pets until they were 15. They had their full mental and physical capabilities the first time they ever saw a saddle. They turned out just fine, and in some ways were way better to work with then a short attention spanned youngster. The difference was that I had to work withen THEIR parameters because they were big enough to kill me. I couldn't depend on off balancing them or making them so sore they would just submit in fear.
In my personal opinion padding needs to be BANNED. People that sore horses to compete need to go to jail and be forbidden to ever own another animal.
And just to show I'm not prejudiced against the TWH industry: I think the sorry asses that block tails to show reining and WP need to be punished too. I also think people should boycott any bit maker that makes and promotes those nasty twisted wire gag/curb bits. They encourage "gimmick" training by producing that crap. Heaven forbid we should start our horses in snaffles or bosals and actually teach them respect instead of fear.
Tracy Meisenbach
www.trinityapp.com
http://thehorsediary.blogspot.com/ (updated 4-27-2008)
It sure doesn't look fun to ride. The horses seem like they're struggling around the ring. Out of balance, kind of flinging themselves through space. Riders are all hunched over, in their mafioso clothes like freaken Nasgul...wtf. Is it traditional for men to be the riders? Why is it called Big Lick?
This is a bastardization of everything a TWH should be. They were bred to be natural, smooth, and good tempered. Anybody that can do this to their horses should not only never be allowed to TOUCH an animal, but should be neutered themselves so they can not breed more ignorant, cruel excuses for humanity.
This just make me cry... how do people permit this? How are there SO many 'horse' people who don't give a flying shit about horses? Good God, you fucking idiots, if you don't care about the animals, GET AN ATV!!!
I knew a VET and SHOER who did this to their TWHs. Unbelievable and inexcusable.
Think a person could get away with blowing them away if they claimed emotional distress inflicted by knowing what they do to other creatures.
My opinion (and it may be met poorly) is that animal cruelty and abuse should have about the same laws attached as human cruelty and abuse. Killing them through abuse is murder. MOST violent criminals started with animals... what does that tell us? Stop it NOW, before they move on to humans.
Arrghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I was raised next to a TWH show farm. HUGE. Broodmares and yearlings out back. Once the horses hit the magical age of 2, they were brought to the FRONT barn. High shod. Tail broke and set. ( I do not know if this happens any more). And life as a horse as they once knew it was now over.
I used to ride my little brown morgan alot, stop in there. Tie him up. And watch in fascination as the horses were worked. I had free run of the place. Often no one was around. Browsed the trophy room. Handed out sugar cubes. The most beautiful horse I had ever seen was put in that front barn as a 2 yr old. So black he looked blue. Eyes soft as a doe. I opened his gate and pet him. Soft as velvet. I wished with all my heart, I could take him, and just make a trail horse of him. Take the ridiculous shoes off his feet, chains off his pasterns. My childish heart wanted to set him and the others FREE.
I had never heard before of walkers doing anything BUT show. It was not until 30 or more years later that I found out, as an adult, that people do ride then natural . It is so very very sad what people do to these gentle horses.
BAREFOOT TWH in a full cheek snaffle, only gadget is a martingale to try and get him to lower his head rather than hollow out which causes a stepping pace rather than running walk:
my Titan
(Sorry about the videographer... fortunately, he's not a surgeon. *g*)
I live a little too close for comfort to the TWH capital of the world.
I don't have a lot of hands on experience with the industry, but the most bizarre thing to me is driving by the farms of the BNTs.
These farms are different than any others in the horse industry. Nice barns, beautiful landscaping, huge lighted roadside billboards (don't understand that trend), and tons of acreage. But you rarely see any horses outside. Sometimes you see a few mares with foals in the back, but that's it.
The TWH farms give me such an eerie feeling when I drive by.
I was actually at the TWH Celebration (the BIG yearly show) a few years ago to watch my colt show. That was the year that the Govt shut down the show because of all the soring violations. I'm happy and proud to say that ALL of my TWH's gait naturally and I would never put any kind of contraption on them from chains to funky shoes. I say the breed is meant to gait, if they can't do it without all kinds of crap and "special" training, they they shouldn't be bred or shown or anything. for the most part they have fantastic temperments, make excellent mounts for many many different types of riding. All these gimicks make me sick. I have no sympathy for people suspended for violations and I think they need to start suspending the judges who place the horses who are gaiting unnaturally. I remember the first time I saw a Big Lick horse, I thought, why the hell far would you want a horse's knees to be up by their ears? And put those big friggin shoes on the feet? That's just messed up...
I remember the TWH controversy being written about when I was a kid-that would be the late '60's. No joke. The horse industry couldn't outrun a glacier when it comes to policing itself effectively. Frankly, I don't think the industry is capable of preventing abusive practices like this without a strong dose of outside monitoring and supervision. Hell, look what goes on in the racing industry. I'm surprised most of the horses don't glow in the dark.
After seeing the TWH's down the road, my mom and knew that those critters were the sweetest babies on the block. They had far more tolerance for their crappy riders than my horse would have had for anyone besides a small child.
These people got them as "lawn ornaments" and they only rode them once a year *slaps forehead*. Yes, they were the type of people who rode once a year all around for like 5 hours!
They would ride up and down the road and had no riding experience. The horses, thankfully, were wonderful gentlemen and took care of their idiot owners. They were the only TWH's I had ever seen.
I would LOVE to ride one, but no one around here has them, so I have never seen a really beautiful one ridden by a competent rider. Maybe some day I will get the chance.
I worked at a saddlebred barn (2 actually) and I can say clearly that those people are *special*. It's not just the big lick people. Saddlebred show people do plenty of weird ass stuff to their horses.
Kudos for all you TWH people who take great care of your horses and care about their welfare!
TWHGal said...
"I have no sympathy for people suspended for violations and I think they need to start suspending the judges who place the horses who are gaiting unnaturally."
I'm all for punishments that would make some question whether the 8th ammendment was being compromised. Fines and imprisonment. Send them to prison with breasts tatooed on their backs. When they get out, force them to wear shoes with insoles made from broken glass and make them walk around with a tampon soaked in hot mustard shoved up their butt.
Yeah. This hits a nerve.
>>As for ASBs- I have seen them kept locked up in dark stalls & when they drag them out at shows they are sprayed in the face with a fire extenguisher. No wonder the poor things always look scared out of their minds!<<
I rode at this barn in L.A. that was half ASB's and half polo ponies (yeah, there was a combo!). One day I was handwalking an old retired polo pony around the pasture, giving her some grass. I was next to the covered arena and had no idea what they were doing in there until they BLEW OFF A FIRE EXTINGUISHER at the poor horse they were riding.
Old Polo Mare took off at warp speed dragging me behind. I got her stopped and we quickly proceeded to find a new grazing spot, far far away from the arena, as I reassured her that she was a polo pony and nobody was going to do that to her!
Can we just add to the list that if you think a fire extinguisher is a horse training device, you might be an asshat?
That makes me so angry to read all the abuse people will dish out to win on a show circuit. My mom has a wonderful TWH, regular shoes and can go for hours out on trail. Very little spook, just a really smart guy. He seems to have built in GPS because no matter where you are or how far from the trailer you are, he knows the quickest trail to take to get back.
OMFG!!! Those poor horses look like they are going to collapse at any moment. Why?
I just want to go sore some people..... Particularly in their most sensitive areas. I hate that and I hate that people think it looks good.
That first video looks like nobody knows how to ride. Having to lean FORWARD b/c your horse is so far back on his hind legs you might fall over? WTH?
Last night I watched George Lopez on HBO special and he has a new "text acronym" that comes in hand here.
FTP (F*&K that Puto) or in this case THOSE (plural) all those PUTOS!
SO FTP ...Big lick walking dicks!
Fugly, I am so glad that you found FOSH.
My beloved fugly TWH's are just fine, and actually perform smooth gaits in BARE FEET!
My only dealing with a, uh, "performance" TWH training barn was to buy a horse that they had for sale there for someone out of town, and he had recently arrived there, and was in training.
He was a two year old colt, and already had "starter" pads on his fronts.
Instead of going crazy and acting all appalled about what I saw going on there like I normally would have, I tried to block out the horses (in my sight, and later, mind) on huge stacks, brown paper wrapped legs, tail sets, etc. until I got the horse out of there.
I calmly told them that before I brought him home, I wanted him off the pads, and gelded.
Thankfully, pad removal and gelding took only a week, and he was out of there fast.
I know that the creeps that owned the facility got a cut of his purchase price, and felt torn about "contributing" to this sort of practice by buying this particular horse, but, I guess we can look at it as a "rescue" for the big dumb fugly idiot, as he has lead a "normal" horse life for the past eight years since purchasing him.
No more pads or chains or chemicals for him. He thankfully hadn't been there long enough for them to have "cut" his tail either.
My other TWH's have never known torture of any kind, unless you call making them wait more than five minutes for dinner, and they probably do, LOL!
They are such a naturally gentle, docile, friendly kind of horse ( with a very minute exceptions to that, I've found over the years, and it is usually human induced if they aren't) that I think that that is what makes them the perfect candidate for the special torture that they are subjected to.
I have always thought (when I finally got perspective, I used to show IWs), that the whole show world has little to do with the animal being shown than the human's ego. My apologies for that last statement for all folks who don't do awful things to your animals to boost your own ego (really sick when you think about it). Thanks to the fugly blog, I have learned that not everyone who is showing their horses is not necessarily some fucked up asshole!
I'm just blathering here now, but I am so grateful for this topic being brought to so many more folks attention, and for folks to realize that all gaited horse owners aren't fucked up torturers or yahoos.
I am so madly in love with my TWHs temperaments, and the smooth gait is fabulous, too! Not into posting or jumping anymore!
Finally, so many people seem to make the same mistake, no matter what the breed, by "blaming the horse" and dismissing a whole breed out of hand because of its fate in life, or they didn't like the people that own breed X, whatever.
We all have our favorite breeds and colors, etc. Poor TWHs seem to be particularly singled out for constant bashing and dismissal and "well, I'd never have one of those" because of what is done to them by a minority. Its not their fault!!!!!!!!
I'll end by saying that a nicer, more gentle, docile, friendly, easy to ride horse would be hard to find, and so easy to love.
Alison
Hey, any TWHBEA people out there? Can you find any show history on a horse named "Bet the Line"?
The TWH show industry disgusts me.
Seriously, this soring stuff is absolutely horrible and I find it even worse that some people think the gait is "natural."
People use acid to make these horses step the way they do. In what way is that natural?
I have so been waiting for this topic! I live smack in the middle of walker country. Have one of the 'big name' trainers of walkers/rackers right down the road. Of course, he's dq'd for life, but that doesn't stop him from training and entering the horses under someone else's name.
I used to board at a pleasure barn. One of the guys moved his show horses in there. He was my buddy and trainer. Sure he was a qh trainer, but I didn't hold that against him and we worked together for a long time.
Then he got this wonderful 4 year old stallion in. Great horse. Great bloodlines. Went beautifully flat. Why they ever padded that boy is beyond me. But they did. And even though I was dead against it, I still groomed for him everyday while he put a finish on my mare's neckreining and sidepassing. Then one day I walked into the barn and he told me not to take the horse out. I said ok, but I was going to go give him his pie anyways. When I walked back to the stall, all I could smell was kerosine. Enough to where if you'd lit a match, we'd have all went up in flames. I gave the horse his pie and walked up to the 'trianer' and calmly asked him to step outside to talk. Then the sh#t hit the fan. I went totally ballistic. I was crying my eyes out by the time I was done. That horse could barely walk. His whole temperment was changed from sweet and loving to mad with pain and confusion. Mt Trainer never touched my horse after that. And about 6 months later left the horse and dropped off the face of the planet. The agreement was that 'trainerguy' cleaned his own stalls and fed his own horses. But with him not returning calls, the barn owner decided to check the horse after a day and a half of no contact. The horse was pitiful. When he was pulled, he was so sore that it took about an hour to walk him the 100 ft to crossties, then we had to take him to the washrack to wash whatever it was that was on his legs. He was a mental case for months. His sj=kin was burned completely off. His hooves were in such bad shape that if the chemicals hadn't lamed him, his hooves would have been enough to ground him for months. But there is a happy ending to this one. The barn owner got a lien on the horse and sold him as a hunting/trail horse in NC. He's loving his new job, barefoot in the mountains, and is sane, fat, and a gelding.
It just burns me to see these wonderful horses treated like this. I wouldn't put that stuff on Barbie's horses, much less a real one. And if anyone wants the list of trainers that are dq'd and for what reason, I'll look it up and send it.
tuffy horse said:
"The pads are just like a woman wearing high heels, it doesn't hurt.
Well here's a clue for your stupid butt: Podiatrists have been speaking out against high heels for years because of the back and knee problems they cause. Furthermore I don't know a single woman that wears her high heels for 24/7."
no shit!!! i am in 4 1/2 inch heels today (of my OWN choosing) and all i've been doing is sitting at my desk and walking to go get some water, and i STILL want to take 'em off!!! christ. and the things they put on TWH's heels are infinitely worse. ughhhhhh. i hate the high heels excuse - and not only because i'm a fashionista! ;)
The lady I board my horse with has a TWH and his tongue has scarring on it that shows where someone nearly cut it off with a chain to get him to tuck his head. ~sigh~
I love a naturally moving gaited horse. They really are a joy to ride but you'll not catch me around those shows.
I am so happy you finally did an in-depth article about this situation. I have ridden both Saddlebreds & Tennessee Walkers, and they are both great breeds. The fact that soring is so dramatically underplayed is tragic. This goes on at EVERY show, and finally an organization has formed to fight the problem. However, people need to be aware of how horrific these practices actually are. I can only hope you have enlightened your readers so that they will be more active in attempting to stop soring. It will take a lot of work, but these trainers need to know that people are catching on to the vicious abuse. The Agriculture Department is apparently cracking down bigtime on soring at major shows so report it if you see it!!! It is fucking pathetic that these trainers have been able to convince owners that soring is the only way to get those gaits right because that is not the case! These are natural gaits dumbasses, your horse naturally moves a certain way & you should not have to burn the shit out of their feet to get them to change. I really hope these idiots get back the torture they've inflicted on these horses twentyfold in hell.
I want to add that it wasn't the lady I board with it was several owners previously that did this to this gentle giant of a TWH.
horspoor said...
"Riders are all hunched over, in their mafioso clothes like freaken Nasgul...wtf."
I thought the same thing!
This whole topic makes me sick. These people should be subject to the same kind of pain that these horses are.
I can't even read the entire account - I am too sick to my stomach. What the hell is the matter with people??
Street mutt- the chains may have been kicking chains? Guessing here, but BNF that I worked at back in the day, bought an ASB mare to breed NSH...
She showed up around 3 am. New owner, (farm owner) wants to turn her out to stretch her legs after her 15 hour non-stop trailer ride from the mid-west. ASB trainers hired by FO, FLIP OUT!
Mare has front feet about 6 inches long. Overgrown feet and pads galore. If she rips off one of those shoes running around, she will most likely take off half her hoof too. Do you have any idea how long it takes to grow a hoof like that?!?!
That mare was miserable! She kicked the shit out of the walls constantly- so she wore kicking chains on all four legs. She only left her stall to be ridden and then hand walked, never put on the walker, never, ever turned out or at the very least- Allowed to even act like a horse. She was bored out of her gourd. Wore the tail set harness over a sheet even in summer with temps of 110+, sweating the whole time underneath everything.
She was a bitch to be around, but she was a multi Ch. & Res. Ch. at a fair in NE or KS, or wherever she came from...
So went her miserable life. Some Saddlebred places aren't a whole bunch better.
One such local farm my friend went to with her Equine Massage therapy class. They were told before they left the classroom the first day, "Whether or not you agree with their training methods or how the horses are treated, you are NOT to say anything to anyone there about it. They are letting us use their horses to learn on and practice various techniques and evaluations. If you say something, they may not let any of us come back."
There was one horse there that the farms personnel had to catch and hold the entire time they worked on him, because he was so stressed out, so tight all over and in such pain he would try to charge them upon entering the stall and constantly tried to bite them while they worked on him- trying to help him.
Not to entirely bash the ASB breed and it's folks- I learned to rope on a Saddlebred. Well bred one too, so not some run of the mill couldn't cut it as a showhorse type either. He just wasn't very fast and sometimes the cows outran him. LOL!
I had the opportunity to show at FOSH's National Gaited Horse Championships last year in CO and I really liked what it stood for as well as the people who showed up. The people there HATE the current show ring policies and only show flat shot and/or humane park classes (with very small pads compared to the "big lick"s). All were there to support FOSH and it's movement against soring.
I think this is a cruel "sport" - why show a horse performing a gait that, while natural, has been artificially enhanced to beyond recognition?
At least with the recent cancellations of the large shows, people are starting to pay attention.
I ride hunters myself, but I ran across an article about a panel that my vet (Dr. Turner) was on:
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=11691&nID=22. If implimented, it could help a great deal in the policing of scoring.
I think it was last year that they did not award a World Champion at the Celebration due to none of the participants agreeing to have shoes pulled.
We have owned several TWHs, all flat shod trail horses. One was an ex show horse, he was the sweetest kindest horse you would ever meet. After watching some of the Big Lick shows there is no doubt the breed has one of the best temperaments out there, many other breeds would kill folks that did some of the things done!.
"I would LOVE to ride one, but no one around here has them, so I have never seen a really beautiful one ridden by a competent rider. Maybe some day I will get the chance."
Colorisn'teverything- come on down to east TN- I know where there are pastures full of barefoot and flatshod walkers used for trails only. I have a great 21 yr old former showhorse that's a dream to ride.
Anyone in MD willing to take in a FREE TWH Gelding???
I found him on Craigslist, he doesn't belong to me or anyone I know.... he looks like a nice guy. I wish I had room for him...
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/pet/658883940.html
Here's his info:
Reply to: comm-658883940@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-04-27, 11:43PM EDT
Nice senior registered TWH gelding with papers.
He was ridden very lightly last fall, but he's not fit now. Very strong and healthy, goes barefoot, not on any medication/supplements.
Would be suitable for giving pony rides although he is still VERY active, I wouldn't consider him child or bomb proof. Also would be great for a babysitter. He loads effortlessly.
He's a Chestnut with flaxen mane and tail with some spots on rear.
Stands approx, 15.1 hands, 2 hind white socks.
I cannot keep three horses any longer, and sadly I have to lighten my load. :(
Please e-mail for more photos or to come and see him.
Free to approved home only!!!
Every discipline has its quack trainers and methods. Although I think the above is repulsive!
The rubber bands someone referred to for Saddlebreds are actually not bad. Think resistence training. Have you not ever used those rubber bands in the gym?. The bands are placed on for a few laps trotting at the most then removed. I sure as heck wouldn't classify it as soring.
I have seen lots of ASB barns and the horses are playing in pasture, turn out etc. Actually it is common practice for saddlebreds to get a vacation after show season.
If the damned chains are so light, than somebody PLEASE tell me how they make a horse raise their legs that high? If that is ALL they are using, they are full of SHIT.I want to scream every f'in time they use that 2-6 ounce defense. I'm going to go out and put a 6 ounce chain on my horses and see if they notice....hell, bell boots weigh more than that. I've never seen horses reach for the stars wearing leather bell boots that MUST weight more than 8 ounces!
OH I wish we had a way to get that Craigslist horses down here. My farrier is looking for a Gelding for a client. They are switching to gaited horses.
I've heard about this for years, but you always hear people say, "Oh, that's not really going on anymore." Based on the blog today, obviously that is NOT true!!
I've also heard that part of the problem is that the judges at some shows are competitors at other shows and vice versa, so the judges turn a blind eye to each other instead of actually policing each other.
The other thing I've heard is that since the govt. has stepped in with more inspections, people will load up their horses and leave a show if they see in inspector on site. They will come back the next day when the inspector isn't there.
It never ceases to amaze me how people justify the cruel things they do to their horses.
And I'd like to see the idiots that do this crap try it on another, less tolerant (more apt to react to torture) breed - like a TB...lol. They'd probably never live to tell about it. Assholes.
Chezza- Big lick walking dicks!
Do they go well with guys like Dennis Reis? The dick with sticks!
Geeze, when I die I want to come back as a TWH ;)
Oh, and the Devon Horse Show still has gaited classes as they are "tradition"... its one tradition I wish they would get rid of.
OctoRock-
People use acid to make these horses step the way they do.
I have also heard of folks using push pins or sewing pins and shoving them through the skin in the heel/pastern area so they are sticking them every step they take.
Not a whole bunch of natural going on there either...
Sick to my stomach...should have skipped lunch. And once again another reason to be embarrassed by my own species. What kind of puke does this to any trusting, basically defenseless creature and considers themselves a "winner"; the "cream of the crop" of showing elite? Do you have to get together with a bunch of like-minded sickos to give each other permission to do these things, to think that this is 'okie-dokie'? I honestly don't see that this is much different than preying on little kids that can't protect themselves from the malignant and greedy self gratification of predators in a different category. Same damn thing as far as I'm concerned.
XPBUTTERCUP-
While my horses are registered with the TWHBEA, I am not a member because they aren't getting a red cent from me.
Otherwise, I'd gladly help you!
Also, not to flame, be provocative, mean, say that anyone else is mean, bad, etc, etc, but I would not even show flat shod at a show that had padded or plantation horses showing.
And especially not the "Celebration" (of WHAT?!).
Even flat shod. To me that condones pads, chains, etc, to even contribute monetarily to the "Celebration" with my entry fee by showing even barefoot in the flat shod classes.
ONLY PADDED HORSES ARE CROWNED WORLD CHAMPIONS for the year.
IF PEOPLE WOULD REALLY NOT SHOW AT ANY SHOW THAT HAS ARTIFICIAL ANYTHING THEN IT WILL STOP!
Its where the money is. Until there aren't millions involved in the winning horses, who seemingly, I've learned, are treated very badly to reach the top in ALL breeds, nothing will change.
"Performance" TWHs. Arabians. Saddlebreds. Morgans. Western "pleasure" QHs.
Money talks, people follow, animals suffer.
Alison
Poor, poor TWH's! I feel so sorry for those horses. What kind of person does this to a horse?
Equus magazine ran an article about this a few years ago. The pictures almost made me throw up. And yes, there are judges that turn a blind eye. There are also some politicians heavily involved in TW's and soring which makes it even more difficult to stop.
And people bitch about the racing industry? There is not a racetracker alive who wants their horse to be sore!
PS- I'd LOVE to go to the FOSH show!
Money where mouths are, LOL!
Alison
Luckily for the horses the USDA has stepped up the thoroughness of their inspections. It used to be if a horse was scarred but showed no signs of pain when touched then they were free to go on their merry way. Unfortunately what would often happen in those cases was the owner would condition the horse against flinching. They would stand next to the horse with a pin or something sharp and jab them when the inspector touched their pasterns. The horse learned that if they flinched they got jabbed so they didn't flinch. Now the USDA has been banning people based on scarring even if there is no "outward sign" of pain. Kudos to them. I remember when people got all bent out of shape claiming it was "unfair" to get banned based on a horse's scarred pasterns. I'm sorry, guys, but the scars got there somehow, even if the horse isn't currently showing any pain.
The whole thing is just obscene to me.
I rode a MFT for years, best trail horse I have ever swung a leg over. I don't know who posted it up above, but I agree-they have built in GPS! I was never ever lost on Casey...he always knew the way home. Damn I miss that horse :(
My friend who owned two walkers boarded them at a local 'I wanna play cowboy' type place. She had regular shoes on them for the terrain.
One guy told her they were 'off' because they 'walked funny'.
She tried to explain to him on several occasions they were gaited, they were bred that way, and this was a natural gait for them- they were not sore or 'off' they were perfectly fine.
He never did 'get it' and she gave up.
But don't you all know he was some 'great trainer' who knew all. Too bad he couldn't train his own way out of a wet paper bag! Even with a giant rip in both sides.
Can we talk about the plastic surgeons that are now employed at the big TWH to remove the scars so that gov't will pass them before they show?
I myself witnessed a surgery for a college class at one of the premier barns in Shelbyville
arWow. You couldn't get a horse to look and move more artificially if you slathered it in Cheez Whiz and called it gourmet fondue.
So "trainers" go through all that secretive abuse to produce...THAT? Those horses look utterly ridiculous. And their riders look like their balls are getting crushed with every step their horse takes, from the way they're hunched over.
I have seen photos of TWHs but never any videos of them in action. And I must say...I am now even MORE confused as to the existence (and popularity!) of such ridiculous-looking "sport".
Here's a good site with a Hall of Shame:
http://bridlepath.wordpress.com/2006/09/24/bridlepath-hall-of-shame-the-big-lick-twh-industry/
>>I've heard about this for years, but you always hear people say, "Oh, that's not really going on anymore." <<
Yeah, exactly. Everybody tells me nobody is letting blood from QH's and hanging them up over rafters anymore like they were doing 15 years ago...but it still going to be a cold day in hell when I send my VLC out to any trainer I haven't checked and investigated the living hell out of.
This is really sad...
But not every place does things like that. I read someone else's comment about horrible things being done to ASBs as well, and though that may be true-its not true for all barns.
The barn where I ride at is a great place for horses, and they don't do any action "helping" techniques.
The ironic thing is that the TWH breed was started as an alternative to saddlebreds in part because of the abuse in the saddlebred industry.
Burt Hunter and the other horsemen who started the TWH forbid the use of weighted shoes or long toes, and I think they did have some kind of approval process. Of course, after Hunter died, all that went out the window.
The ironic thing is that the TWH breed was started as an alternative to saddlebreds in part because of the abuse in the saddlebred industry.
Burt Hunter and the other horsemen who started the TWH forbid the use of weighted shoes or long toes, and I think they did have some kind of approval process. Of course, after Hunter died, all that went out the window.
CUTNJUMP=
Seriously!
Try living in north Texas with a breed of horse that IS NOT a QH or other stock breed!
You would think that my horses came from the moon, for heaven's sake.
The TWHs are "bad" enough, but I also have an old retired Saddlebred. He may as well be a giraffe!
Now I know why it took FOUR YEARS for poor old Saddlebred to "calm down", I had always thought that he mush have had a "nervous breakdown", now I know it must have been partly due to the fire extinguisher thing.
Old Saddlebred was on his way to Fort Worth when I got him, he must have been a "washout" saddleseat horse.
Oh, by "on way to Fort Worth", that was when slaughter plant was there.
Alison
I thinkthe Show ones look stupid also.
Honey blue - No the "Big Lick" horses nor the "Lite Shod" horses could ever go trail riding on a real rough terrain trail. These horses NEVER see turn out for fear they will break off a foot or hurt themselves in other ways.
TWH's are a more fine bodied horse to start with but the size of the bone structure of the two year olds is so frail looking. It is a wonder there are any sound horses left from the show season to make a 3 & 4 year old class.
2manyminis - The reason for the posture is as follows:
Riding the padded horses the front of the horse is already elevated from the pads, then as the horse begins to move out they must shift their weight onto their hind so they can get the huge pads up and out of the way for their back feet so the rider tends to set more forward to keep from pulling on the horse, also arching of the back also helps to hide any roughness in the gait.
On Lite shod horses it is more to hide roughness in the gait with some slight elevation.
You should never see someone on a flat shod horse with that posture. If you do they either don't know how to ride and are just imitating or their horse has a very rough gait they are trying to cover up.
FHOTD - If you think a fire extinguisher is a horse training device you ARE an Asshat
I boarded with a lady back in MA who had a lovely little TWH. He could have been my horse's twin and even *I* had trouble telling them apart sometimes. They trail rode like crazy -- going MILES every summer -- with him barefoot, and riding in a rope hackamore or at MOST a bittless bridle. He was a doll of a horse and was my first exposure to TWHs.
Then I learned about padding/soring.
Oh my GOD why would anyone DO that to their horse??! It is so unnatural looking, and so painful.. it just astonishes me.
I watched that video on the site maigray posted - a flat shod TWH in a Big Lick padded show... that flat shod horse was the only one that actually moved like a HORSE. The padded ones move like an ostrige in the back and flailing monkeys in the front. Their heads and necks are so high in the air I'm surprised the rider doesn't fall right off the rump. And what is with those tails?? Broken and re-set, I imagine. :sigh: It's so sad.
I boarded at a reining barn and never saw anything like that. The horses were never turned out - and I didn't like that - but that was probably the worst thing that happened to them. They were well fed, excersised daily, got a little bit of turnout when their stall was cleaned and generally led good (although somewhat boring) lives. Why are TWHs treated so differently - and cruelly??
I just don't get it - at ALL.
Is it just me or does anyone else see the irony in this song choice?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxyxVSoqd18&feature=related
Holy crap, this is just awful and cruel, I just don't believe they have been doing this for years. But then again, nothing surprises me anymore. Hopefully, someone will take an HONEST look at this and try to curtail these practices.
The more I watch those padded TWHs, I just don't get it. They look like they're having seizures... And watching them canter!!!!! Oh My GOD! Horrible. They look like they're drowning.
Augh, what a disgrace.
The ones without pads are lovely. Why would anyone ruin them with the pads. SO Sad.
Holy frights, look what I found on the "Hall of Shame" link somebody posted. Sheesh,it looks like a prison riot. Needless to say, comments on the video have been disabled.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7gW256-ebt8
I have two natural gaited TWH's that were never trained with chains, etc.
They are the smoothest, best horses I have ever rode. Its a shame to me that the "industry" allows these horses to be tortured. The "big lick" is not appealing. The natural gait of these horses should be more than enough for anyone to enjoy.
FHOTD,
I've never heard of the blood letting in Quarter Horses. (Wish, I'd still never heard of it). Morbid curiosity. Hang them over the rafters? How?
It seems if you go far enough in any discipline there is an element of cruelty.
It's bad, but some of the western training I've seen is worse.
My trainer moved and shared a barn with a Big Name Western Trainer who has several World and National titles to his Appaloosas in reining. The things they did were ridiculous.
I remember a horse having his reins tied so tightly to the saddle horn the horse had to keep his head tucked under. His mouth was bleeding. He was in pain. And at the end of the day, they took him out of the arena and put him in the stall, still tied, and left him like that for days.
Some of the things that are considered "breed-appropriate training" are just sick.
Some of my childhood mounts were well built TWH's and I loved and miss them very much. . . amazing creatures they most certainly ARE . . .and don't deserve to be abused and mutilated in such a manner. .. they too, deserve their dignity - and THIS isn't it.
Of course, this goes for most breed association shows . .. LOTS of things happen at all the shows that SHOULDN'T. . .
CutNJump said...
Chezza- Big lick walking dicks!
Do they go well with guys like Dennis Reis? The dick with sticks!
Oh come on CNJ I'm no Dennis Reis fan, but please lets not put him and his dick sticks in the same catagory with the Big Lick Trainers. I honestly can't imagine any trainers in any disciplines that can compare to that cruelty.
I thought Reis, Anderson and Parelli all had dick sticks?
Soshorses-
TWH's are a more fine bodied horse to start with but the size of the bone structure of the two year olds is so frail looking.
Not the ones my friend had. Hers were big strapping SOB's, and part of the reson she chose them was her- heavier than she wanted to be- weight. Most I have encountered were on average- 16 hands- flat shoes or barefoot and built like a brick shithouse.
I agree those 2 & 3 y/o's look like something you would find comprable to a stick horse, but walkers can be quite big and big boned as well. I wonder about the nutrition of those babies and if they are 'dieted' to keep their form and weight in check as well as the feet issues.
She was also involved on a very small scale with show Walkers (left because of the cruelty involved but not before reaming everyone within earshot a new one when she found out about it) and said "A 'good' walker can pull your ass up out of the saddle by the reins."
I never did or ever will understand wanting a horse to have a mouth THAT tough, but apparently some people judge a walker and their abilities that way...
*eyeroll*headdesk*
THESE TWH's look much happier. . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfFIMaCxdC0&NR=1
They even zoom in on their feet.
HP- "hanging a horse over the rafters refers to tying their head up to where their front feet barely touch the ground. They tire, standing there for hours in some cases. When taken out and ridden they keep that nice low headset since everything is too tired and weakened to do otherwise.
Another way of gimmicking instead of actually training...
OK, so everyone that has ever done something like that to an animal needs to be tortured horribly before they die a horrible death.
So out of curiosity, WHAT pray tell is so attractive about the hunchback of Notre Dame slumping over a horse with cinder-blocks tied to his feet? Can someone clue me in? I've always thought it looked silly, but I never realized the amount of torture that went into making them move so goofy. :-(
What's a dick stick? Should I just use my imagination? Is this another name/use for PP's carrot stick?
Boss_Mare-
Of course, this goes for most breed association shows . .. LOTS of things happen at all the shows that SHOULDN'T. . .
Here, here!
Couldn't agree more. And not just the breed shows, I think more too at the low level schoolers as well.
It is allowed or at least not punished as the "They paid, they can play" theory is at work.
Nobody has the balls to step up to put a stop to it and so it continues on... and the horses suffer for it.
ok, just as a heads up - DON'T GOOGLE "dick stick" + horse. It's not pretty!
UGH Cut,
Been around horses my whole life. And the crap I see go on blows me away. I did not know people did that...who the hell thought of that? What kind of a sick mind thinks this shit up? How do they justify it in their little pea brains.
There is a dressage judge here, she can judge to GP I believe. Watched her and one of her students ride in their doubles....with draw reins. OMFG
Well, I'm not into the gaited breeds at all, although I have ridden a TWH (natural shod). I have friends who have them and they make great trail horses. If you don't do all that stupid stuff to them. I really don't get the point of doing that to a breed to show. It is like you are showing off your abuse practices, not the horse.
>>Ex padded horses have a myriad of back and stifle problems. They are also usually head cases. They simply do not understand being ridden without being abuse. Their mouths are like iron and their tongues are often scarred, or cut, across the middle.<<
My experience is old, I guess. I had flatshod TWHs from 1988-1998. Taught handicapped riding for a program that used almost only TWHs from 1986, 7 years, held at a large breeding/showing operation. I was in charge of horse care and selection for the program for 5 of those years. Most of the horses came as donations of retired show horses. I agree with the mouth of iron-part, many wanted to be supported with the hands ("push 'em on from behind and take aholt of 'em) was how they had been trained. They had little lateral control. They were not head cases--sometimes we'd turn down horses because they were too hot for our riders (fun for the volunteers though!)
My first horse was a 23 yr old retired show "speed class" racer who then did 10 yrs of mtd search and rescue with a 250 lb rider. Huge bone, 16.1 1/2 hands, foundation breeding. Got the second three weeks later, a week old suckling. I boarded at a show barn, in large turnouts "out back", but watched what they did in terms of "fixing". Never saw fetlocks as damaged as what there seems to be now. Also had my hands on the chains, and watched how they were used. As the horse elevated in front, they slipped back and forth on the pasterns. Workouts were short. They definitely started colts at 18 months, but at that place they ground drove them dragging a tire first.
I am in no way an apologist for that industry, I cheered when I heard of the closure at the WGC. But yeah, I understand it's the money, and it's the "rush"--I rode a padded horse a couple of times, and it's like driving a Ferrari, especially when they're "deep behind", with that big reach in front. My Arabs would never have stood for some of that treatment, those big lick horses I saw seemed content with the stall time, and all the fussing over their pasterns, tailsets, blankets, etc. Fed straight alfalfa where the barn smelled of ammonia of course.
Speaking as a walker person - big lick makes up less than 10 percent of the overall walker population. Which is 10 percent MORE than it needs to be, IMO. I am a huge supporter of FOSH and the NWHA. The second - which I haven't seen a mention of yet - is an alternative registry for walkers that doesn't allow all this shit.
The problem all along is that while 90 percent of the walker population has no interest in soring, the registry is controled by the other 10 percent. They simply will not condemn these practices. The non-sore crowd has been forced to keep the sore crowd in business if they wanted to continue to register their horses. (At prices far steeper than the average breed registry, with a annual membership steeper than most.)
So anyway, the NWHA comes out to give the 90 percent a place to run to. And people start jumping ship. So the orig club sues them for "copyright infringement" or some such crap. The club tries to claim that they own all the pedigree info and the NWHA has no right to use it. (Has anyone here ever seen one registry using another club's ped info? Like..um...Paint using Quarter? Both using T-Bred? Hello? It's accepted all over the industry!)
After wasting a whole lot of money on this, the courts found in favor of the NWHA - they said you can't copyright information.
So between that lawsuit (against a club who should have never been needed in the first place!) and other financial mismanagements, they are broke. They are asking members for DONATIONS. No shit, I am not making this up. The club is in dire straits....which makes me laugh my ass off.
You see, they can not keep it going w/ the handful of big lick people..and they've pissed off everyone else.
I found a recent release by a club head honcho (I'm thinking the pres but don't remember for sure) that refered to a study underway on the damage that the stacks cause. Something along the lines of "paying attention to the results" and "the club may need to review it's stance" - which I think is weasle talk for "crap, we need to kiss up to the natural folks or we're going to die". I think he's looking for an excuse to change sides.
Here's the deal - they talk about all the efforts they've made to stop it, and it's all lip service. All they have to do is STOP recognizing padded as an acceptable class. Right now, the only way to get a world grand champion is to go padded. Yeah, they have a non-padded version, but that one doesn't get it on his papers like the padded one does. Can we say "lip service"?" They could have brought this to a screeching halt 50 years ago, but the good ole' boy network is too busy protecting it's own. It's a case of asking a fox to guard the hen house.
And the first thing any of these people will say when you confront them is some variation of "stop picking on us, abuse happens in all aspects of the horse industry". Well, yeah jerkoff, but no other aspect of the horse industry ACCEPTS IT AS NORMAL. I never had a quarter horse trainer walk up to me and tell me how to "fix" my quarter horse - go to a walker show w/ a natural going horse. You'll have a dozen offers in as many minutes.
The NWHA (Natural Walking Horse Assoc) has given folks like me someone else to give their money to, and there is only one way to win me back - ban this crap, and do more than shake a finger at the offenders.
Did y'all know they won't even publish a list of trainers that get busted for soring? They get like a 2 month suspension or such. Oooh..scary. They won't do worse...not to their financial backers.
As a walker person, I believe the orig registry can not fold fast enough to suit me. Pull that crap down, level the very building that they are in. Bulldoze the whole damn mess and to hell with the pedigree records. (Most of which are bogus as hell to begin with -- you do NOT have tobianos springing out of solid lines any more than you get blacks springing out of chestnut lines....or palominos/buckskins out of chestnut lines. I think I find genetic impossiblities on like 3 outa 5 papers I look at, so I have no problem with trashing the lot. Too many BYB liars in that club's pre-dna testing history.
My prediction: The club will either ban this stuff inside of the next 2/3 years, or end up in bankruptcy
Go NWHA! Go GO GO! GO FOSH! Bring 'em down!
@#$%# walker club asking me for handouts - not if their very lives depended on it.
BTW, I've retrained an ex big lick horse. Took about a year to overcome the worst of his trust issues, I pretty much treated him like a race horse. Stuck him in a field for a year and let him just be a horse, then started him from the basics like he'd never seen a saddle. Ended up one wiz-bang trail mount.
I have a TWH and he is the sweetest horse I've ever had. However when I first got him he was a basket case in the ring, due to his show history. The first time I went to get on him, no one there to hold him and totally unprepared for the burst of speed I was about to experience from my new horse standing patiently waiting for me to mount. Well, he stood until my leg was about halfway over his back then he took off racking... my one foot in the stirrup and my butt behind the saddle. Luckily I managed o pull him in, just in time to scoot up in front of the saddle quickly before he got too nervous standing there and decided he needed to keep moving. we cantered many small circles, trying to calm him down... he was almost doing canter pirouettes. he wasnted speed, I wanted im to calm down and asked for a circle... so I got speed in a circle. lol. He had LONG feet and heavy shoes when he came to me, so I pulled them for regular horse's shoes and normal length feet. He's now barefoot and doing well.
Anyways, I gave up on the ring for a while and took him out on the trail, where he excels. He WALKED UP to a giant bright orange plastic bag, because it piqued his interest and STEPPED ON IT before he decided to move on. any other horse I've ridden would have caught the sight of it out of the corner of their eye and taken off in fright. He loves going out on trails, his ears are always forward, and he never fusses over leaving the barn on his own, but instead strides off happily looking forward to the ride!
He is looking for a new home however, due to the fact that I am returning to Dressage... and he refuses to trot. He has a nice easy running walk, though!
Hasn't anyone heard of what they did in 2006? The USDA is empowered to enforce the Horse Protection Act, and in 2006, they sent inspectors over to the Celebration. The inspectors disqualified most of the championship class for soring. The place exploded. The Championship was cancelled, they had to be escorted out under police protection, a riot was forming and one guy publicly offered to pay off the few remaining contestants to the cool tune of around $10,000 or somesuch (he was later indicted on bribery). Since the town (Shelbyville, TN) builds their economy around the Celebration, the mayor attends, etc. and etc., it was a huge scandal.
luvmyfugly,
OMG lol. I know that one. I was looking for Chicks Saddlery online...it's not chicks.com...k. lol
I have been a pretty loyal reader of this blog for quite some time now. I've also shown TWHs for most of my life. While I understand perfectly well that there are a lot of krazees in my chosen discipline, I'm a bit disappointed in the way you chose to represent the discipline in this blog. The fact that FOSH has been listed as a reputable organization is just one indication of the lopsidedness of this particular post. They're the TWH industry's answer to HSUS! I'd really like it if you posted a more balanced blog about my industry later. We're not *all* bad.
Oh, also... WTF is up with those riders?! I think a GOOD saddleseat rider is an awesome sight to see, but these TWH saddleseat riders... well they look kinda constipated.
Okay, that video of the 2 year old horses has to be the most Gawd awful looking gait on an animal. There is nothing beautiful to watch a horse flailing around like a giraffe having seizures, with some huge ape hunched over in a suit sitting on it's back.
If you look at some of the videos of the natural gaited TWH's there - those animals are BEAUTIFUL, both in their body and their gait. They look like a pleasure to ride.
My trainer--a DOG TRAINER who had been on a horse a handful of times before this--learned to ride on an older but still flashy TWH at a friend's farm and even showed this horse at 'fun shows' for the friend a time or two...until he got a 'backstage pass' and saw how the horse was trained to move that way. Never again went back, never again associated with that friend. He sadly showed me a photo of him on the old gelding at a show and it was a beautiful photo...but tears filled his eyes, horse was treated so heartlessly for the sake of looking pretty but still had such heart, patience and sense. He wouldn't even tell me what he saw being done to the horses and after reading the blog today I can see why.
this is the one i've been waiting SO long for... any second we will be BOMBARDED by the big lick people.
my mom always said, "The guilty dog yelps the loudest!"
I rescued two TWH's "big lick" horses about 13 years ago. They had the huge padded shoes as shown. One thing they do also is 1/2 of a golf ball is placed on their sole, in the shoe, so that there is a rolling motion as the horse lifts the fronts. My one horse was so severely scarred that we got him for a steal because they had "used a bad batch of acid." (I dont know how acid could ever be good, but whatever) He had a good solid 2-3 inches of proud flesh around his entire front ankles. No hair ever grew back. He was the best horse you could ever imagine. They were severely beaten, spurred, etc. and this was at a TOP TOP TOP multi-million dollar farm. It also happened to be a KKK-member loving facility, but that is besides the point. The horse that was scarred was used as a trail horse and was great. Big beautiful 17 hand black gelding. Of course we gelded him. He was a 4 year old stud when we purchased him. The other was a 7 year old stud, which we also gelded, and he was abused to a lesser extent. He just had a saddle sore. I guess he was fortunate to not get "a bad batch." I can attest that everything this poster has said about the abuse is true. Light shod can be quite standard and normal horse care, but once you get into the "big licks" they torture these horses. Notice how you always see pics of men riding them hunched forward and with way long stirrups, that is mainly because they want to spur them as low as possible to get a lift from their bellies. I could go on and on. This breed definately needs help.
Having said all of this, I have shown Morgans in both english pleasure and the park divisions. Chains are used, along with tail sets, but the "abuse" is non-existent compared to the TWH's. The Morgans were loved, exervised, enjoyed turnouts, etc etc. The TWH's I rescued had never felt grass on their hooves. It took them months before they knew how to graze. It was really sad.
horspoor said...
UGH Cut,
Been around horses my whole life. And the crap I see go on blows me away. I did not know people did that...who the hell thought of that? What kind of a sick mind thinks this shit up? How do they justify it in their little pea brains.
There is a dressage judge here, she can judge to GP I believe. Watched her and one of her students ride in their doubles....with draw reins. OMFG
We have one two doors down- Dressage barn, owner who judges internationally (or so they advertise). Everything has side reins on while there. Even horses trailering in for training & lessons. They hang miserably on the horses faces- you can see it from our barn- it is THAT blatent and obvious.
They have at least one stallion, kept in solitary and the wife is scared shitless to handle him. Cold day in HELL when a horse comes here like that unless THAT is what is is here FOR fixing!
Mare, stallion or gelding, that is not tolerated behavior. We are in charge, they are not. Our saftey, their safety and the safety of the other horses in our barn depends on it.
Even if "small dick" walking wasn't achieved through cruel and unfair means (and I feel that it is achieved through abuse, from what I heard and thing I've seen personally at shows) it is still the god damn stupidest looking thing I've ever seen a horse made to do. Really, what's wrong with the *real* way TWH move, (which is actually rather nice looking) that you feel a need to whore it up like this? Yuck.
Oh, and while were at it, can anyone help this sweet looking guy?
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1207300
Ben needs an upgrade, pronto. It would seem his life depends on it.
HP- Our dressage barn neighbors- not saying the side reins and constant hanging on their face comes close to the attrocities posted about here or other things I have seen, but their idea of training lacks a few things called fundamentals.
Luvmyfugly-
Dennis Reis is a NH 'trainer' of sorts. He uses two sticks in his round pen methods.
Hence the Dick with sticks.
I think it was Horspoor who stated they will hence be known as dicksticks.
That show video really set me back. There is no way that those horses are comfortable, fun or happy....and those riders reminded me of Lurch from the Adams Family, I mean WTF????
It truly is sad, not just of TW but of all breeds, what man has thought of in the name of show titles, money or awards, to do to their animals for no gain of the horse. These practices have been going on for years, and at what cost?
Sad....I am going to go out and hug my horse...
I'd love to take credit for the "dicksticks"...but it wasn't me.
Cut,
I see alot of bad dressage. Many of the horses I see being ridden "dressage" are just held. They've lost any real forward. Their necks look shortened due to bad riding. Collection is not pulling on your horse's face. Yup, swear to god, it really isn't.
When will this stop?
Taking something natural and turning it by force, by "selective" breeding, by surgery, or by cruelty into something completely unnatural is just plain wrong. We all know that.
I think we are all aware that until such exagerated movement is spurned by judges rather than rewarded, this kind of abuse will continue.
Just my thoughts.
twhequ- Don't ditch your walker for dressage. They have opened up a whole gaited horse dressage thing. I remember seeing an article on it in Dressage Today or one of the Dressage magazines.
They 'get it' that dressage benfits the gaited horses too. Check into it. It might be worth it to you and to hanging onto him as your gaited horse dressage mount.
"giraffe having seizures" - priceless. Excellent description.
As I said before, I'm not in the Walker world - but what I read on FOSH made sense to me, and we seem to have everybody but one person here in the comments (many of whom are Walker people) supporting FOSH - so I'm guessing FOSH has got it right. Just a hunch.
The blacksmith we used for many a year quit doing TWHs when they started laying down rather than having their feet handled. That was all I ever needed to know about the life of these poor horses.
>>I see alot of bad dressage. Many of the horses I see being ridden "dressage" are just held. They've lost any real forward.<<
I just said to CNJ in e-mail, they have "crunched up" confused with collection. There's a BIG difference.
Elaz11 - I was shocked by this video. That poor horse is working WAY too hard. Diabolical, really. Heartbreaking.
HP- and that is where rolkur comes in... And Fugly covered that here once too.
Ugh, this is making me ill. My first riding instructor got a fabulous Morgan from a mostly saddleseat barn, and I remember visiting before she purchased him.
The horses were all in stalls (even though it was beautiful outside with big green pastures) wearing sleezies to sweat their necks and some sort of tail setting device. They all had leg wraps on. Later I remember my instructor telling me that saddleseat people were WEIRD and did strange things to their horses.
It wasn't until years later that I read an article and figured out what that "weird" stuff was.
This post has reinforced my dislike of saddleseat (sorry--I know there must be some true horsepeople in that crowd, but you've got to do something about this!).
It has also made me want to ride a (natural, happy, healthy) TWH! They sound wonderful!
Also, can someone explain the weird back legs waaaaay back stance that they pose the horses in? Is their a reason for this? Is it natural at all or is the horse just set up that way?
Here is an example:
http://www.walking-horse.com/showcase/HardcastlesPrimeSun.html
CutNJump- thanks, I actually lookedinto it for a little, but my problem is wanting to trot, also. I'm not a huge fan of the gaits. a nice rack or good running walk can be fun... but I prefer a trot. I "upgraded" him and he's a total lovebug and now, as spring has hit, apparently quite the stud, according to Ms.Misty the little paint mare. But now its time for him to find his permanent home as a gaited trail horse, I think. I have my eye on an ex racer at work that the owner is thinking of giving away after this year's foal is weaned.
They kind of shoot themselves in the foot with the holding, and having their horse tight. The tight back can lead to a very lateral canter. Not pretty. I think some people really dont know what collection is. It's hard to get it, unless you've felt it. I also think a great many of these riders are afraid of forward. It can be an intimidating feeling.
AND...JESUS. Google tennessee walking horses for sale and look at the WINNERS you find.
Like here...this isn't the only "display of disposition" that shows an appalling lack of safety. I love that hanging off your stallion's neck means he is bombproof.
http://www.cloud9walkers.com/Gunsmoke.htm
twhequ- I wasn't sure if you had heard of it or not. I would guess many others may not have so I threw it out there for the gaited horse crowd as another option to enjoying their horses without all of the gimmicks and torturous so called training methods out there.
these TWH guys do justice the 'monkey f-ing a football' pose... actually it might have been invented for them! (slouched over, jiggling away in the saddle... eew). Personally I've seen several saddlebred and a few TWH shows, and since the trainer ride the horses then the owners show them, usually the owners can't ride for crap. Doesn't matter as long as the horse does what he's supposed to. And I agree with many, these horses must be SAINTS to put up with it all.
HP- the way it was explained to me is the horse is like a rubber band.
You cannot get collection without extension. Both builds muscle.
Extending the gaits is like pulling the rubber band tight and stretching it.
When you release the rubber band it goes back into normal position, just like when you no longer ask for the extension the horse will collect and gather themselves back up.
You can't get one without the other. Just like you can overdo both.
This is a subject near and dear to my heart, as I have been involved in TWH's for 20+ years. The soring has been going on, and will go on, as long as there is the 'old boy' network of trainers and judges. If they can't sore, they can't win, and their goes their money.
Let me address several points:
some method of soring is outlawed, they will just go find another. It's all about the money, and the judges.
We have been fighting soring for the entire time I have been involved in TWH, and it doesn't just happen in the Performance horses, it's happening in the plantation/lite shod as well. We are making headway there, as we finally now seem to have some judges who are looking for a natural gait, but too late for me.
I stopped showing about 6 years ago. There had been rules passed against lite shod/plantation horses using chains, etc. to train. So trainers were going to the saddlebred ranks and using shackles to train. They were desperately trying to get as close to the 'big lick' action as they could, even though the rules stated the action should be 'natural.' The last show I went to, I was just collecting versatility points at a show in Lexington, VA. I watched a young stallion working out, that had everyone's attention. This horse was owned and trained by someone who was really promoting humane training methods, but in a good way, working within the system to prove you didn't need to use them to have a winning horse. We spoke to one of the trainers as they schooled him, and someone asked him did he use any artificial aids. He laughed, and said sure (we all held our breath) I use spurs, a bit and a crop, they are all artificial. (we all laughed) That horse was clean legged, perfect conformation, and made chills run down you back when he move, his gait was that good. He was beautiful, and I watched him in 2 classes, and he never placed above 3 or 4th. Horses who were pacey, head in the air from severe bits, and bizzare action from the shackles were placed over this gem, because the judges will still place who they want, no matter if they are not doing the gait.
I realized then I wanted nothing more to do with this organization.
I had a stud colt a few years ago who had real potential, but as I was going through a divorce, I had to sell him. There is a TWH trainer near me who had been cleaning up in lite shod shows, and several people recommended him. So I sent my colt to him, so that he would have his best chance when I sold him. This supposedly all natural, humane trainer, took my colt whom I had ground driven, had been on his back, he was ready to go, and proceeded to drug him until he was staggering. This was his training method. Then when the horse was so out of it, he couldn't even figure out what you wanted, he would smack him and yell at him to get him to do what he wanted. I caught him doing the beating, and took my colt home. A vet confirmed the drugging. This was the guys great training secret, drug them until they are loose, walking, and don't care what's going on, then ride them in a show. I decided then, my colt wasn't going to a show home. I gelded him, worked him for about 3 more months as a trail horse, and sold him to a person who adored him, trail rides him and does 4 H demos with him.
Oh, and yeah, this guy is still training and winning shows.
I would love for TWH shows to start doing drug tests..
Crunchberry's mom said...
"this is the one i've been waiting SO long for... any second we will be BOMBARDED by the big lick people."
Actually, I don't think so. They don't seem to give a damn what the rest of the horse world thinks of them.
..maigray..
Inspectors are at every show - including the Celebration. The industry was threatened that unless they cleaned up - the inspectors would eliminate the contenders.
The industry is sick and sorted - full of good ol'boys and "tradition".
I have not ever been a part of it other than an outsider living within spitting distance of the Celebration - after seeing the extent they will go - the plastic surgery - to "pass" inspection - I have NO respect.
And the Lite Shod classes are a JOKE - the TWH industry have discovered a "lite" small shoe that does the same job as the heavy shod. You think I am kidding?
I was never into the "gaited" thing when I was learning to ride so up until recently have been ignorant off this stuff.
It boggle my mind why people get into horses if they dont love them...how you get into a sport/hobby passion whatever that costs this much money, unless you love it? And the people who do theses things certanily do not love theses animals.
This Christmas I went for a trail ride with a family friend and got to ride a sweet Missouri Fox Trotter named Rocket..he was incredible. His gaits were so comfortable to ride. He didn't need any weird shoes on his feet or chains or chemical burns to make him go like that. Riding Rocket for that one afternoon made this show crap even more ridiculous.
The TWH breed registry should immediatley ban all of it...not just crack down...ban it all.
If you show up with padded shoes..you're gone, for your lifetime too. Zero tolerance for horse abuse.
The comments are interesting for this video as well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWM-VCCS09g&feature=related
I can't believe that anyone could think that gait is "natural" and the same goes for those Western Pleasure horses anyone who thinks that is beauty in action needs to have their head examined.
The music playing in the background seems appropriate.. Circus music, because all I see in that damn video is a FREAK SHOW CIRCUS ACT!!! I am 100% Disgusted. I just cant fathom and comprehend how any human being that loves horses or animals can look at that and see something beautiful and natural in how those horses move. Makes me want to cry it is so disturbing.
Maigray said...
Have you ever seen this site? I guarantee you will like it: http://www.walkinonranch.com/1999Celebration.html
Great site and story, Maigray. I'll make it a link so more people will check it out. Talk about taking on the status quo of the Big Lick.
I only rode a flat shod TWH once, and what an absolute pleasure it was. Like riding on a couch, at a speed faster than most of the other horses could trot. They are THE BEST trail horses you could ever own, especially for an "older person" who's not interested in posting in an English saddle, or trying to ride a Western trot on a horse that's less than comfortable. IMHO, the "big lick" that's so desired can be bred into the horse, BUT it takes time to see if the ability is there, and owners with more money than brains want results NOW, at any cost. So the horses are gimmicked. This also holds true for Arab Park horses. In fact, again IMHO, the National Show Horse was created because some of the trainers (e.g. LaCroix?) in the Arab market wanted to get a bigger lick, and couldn't stand the heat of people complaining about the gimmicking, so they created their own breed! As for the hunched look...I chalk it up to trainers who do not want to post (hurts their little gonads I guess.) I've seen it with Arab Park horses, saddlebreds, TWHs, any breed that has an exaggerated English gait.
Last season we took our 4 year old daughter to every horse show within a 50 mile radius around our city, and that kept us busy every weekend. We caught two TWH shows, and we had never seen them before. My very first reaction was for all the money they spent on show clothing, why were the shoes so big and black and ugly? I went on and on at our riding club about how I couldn't believe that many drag queens were into equine shows but for the life of me, why didn't they deck out those platform shoes with sequins and feathers? I was perplexed that their investment appeared to stop at the knees of the horse- not very drag-queenie, in my experience.
I thought I was being funny. I had no fucking idea these were weighted implements of torture until I jokingly offered to buy some ornamented platform pumps for the TWH I was riding for lessons, and his owner ripped me a new ass. I'm never surprised by humanity's capacity to do fucked up things, but christ it just seems so pointless. My point here is that the general public has no idea this stuff goes on. What the TWH community needs is a strong PR campaign. Every white-gloved junior league housewife writes a check to save the environment now, thanks to Mr. Gore's masterful PR skills. Let's harness this idea and run with it.
One more comment on breaking out the 18 month to 2-year-olds... Sure, these colts are big strapping animals, BUT their knees are not fused, their joints are not strong enough, their bones can't take the beating from heavy training. Think of a big 12 year old kid, playing college football. Sure, there are 14 year old kids who are 200 lbs and 6 feet tall, BUT they'd be no match for a heavily muscled 200 lb 24 year old, in a match-up of football, or some other sport, even though they knew the rules of how to play the game. What's the damn hurry??? Saw one post that said the horses are shown till they're 7 or 8, Hell, some jumpers are in their late teens and still showing! 7 or 8 should be the beginning of the best years of the animal's career.
Good God. I admit - I didn't make it very far before I got sick to my stomach.
People give ME shit for racing, yet this crap not only goes on, but seems to be ACCEPTABLE to their show circles?!?
F* that. It never fails to amaze me what some asshats will do to their animals for a f*ing show....even our small-town ones.
Hi,
First off, I know nothing about TWH, but after watching the video of the two year olds, I couldn’t help but wonder…what happens to those that don’t make it in a show career? With all the damage to their backs, front and hind end…can they be salvaged? Or are they sent to slaughter?
The torsion to the knee’s and hocks on a horse that young can’t be good, and then putting a 200lb + person on their backs and making them walk at that strange angle….
With all the added weight and the strange angle do they break down in the front in shows? A couple of times when the came to a halt they looked as if they were going to fall…
Don’t want to seem stupid, just never seen a two year old put through something like that…and I thought racing two year olds was horrid…which it is, but nothing like this…
Jill
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sW-GqPIxRII
The big black mare often in the outside in this video is a TWH mare. Moves naturally, moves happily and has never had anything besides a simple snaffle in her mouth.
Not too bad for a bunch of donated and/or unwanted horses ;)
The girls in the video didn't do too bad (but I am biased to a degree as well), considering they did this in 3 days? and on strange horses who all had their issues.
I miss the girls and I miss the unwanted horses as well.
But when I see this walker mare gait in from the field every morning (they are kept on 200+ acres of pasture at night and brought into a corral in mornings), it's glorious. Ears forward and she seems so alive. Wish everyone could have that experience with a walker.
I own a TWH cross and she does gait...I love her to death. A real sweetheart and the first horse I have ridden since my trusted old QH passed a couple of years ago that I trust. I know she was trained by someone who knew how to train a good gaited horse. Never has she been shod with anything other than regular old keg shoes...and only those because we ride on the road.
Knew a guy years ago that trained and showed TWH..he was small time compared to the big barns...I was always intrigued because he started them at 18 months, and he would grow toe and use weighted shoes and pads, but he didn't sore or use any of the implements under the pads or chains, etc. It was like, he'd only go so far. His horses did move well and he did win. I saw him walk past a group of horses laying in their stalls at a breed show and shake his head. When the owner of those horses asked him what his problem was, all he said was, "there IS a special place in hell for you, hope you'll be ready." and walked away. I found him to be a puzzle...he did things I would never do, but he didn't buy into the whole thing.
I don't know enough about FOSH to have a good opinion, but if they are trying to change things, good for them. You have to start somewhere. I will add that I have seen some horrible things done to WP QHs at big barns to get them ready for the "big" shows, I know my hackney was terrorized before we got her...gingered, fire crackers tossed at her, you name it. To this day, when you go to put the crouper on with her harness, she clamps her tail so tightly she'll break your finger. She flinches everytime you touch her hip or get anywhere near her tail. We have owned her for 10 years and NEVER done anything abusive to her...it's sad what a human will do to "keep up with the Jones's".
Several years ago, I was driving through Shelbyville TN on a Sunday morning, and stopped by a bug-name TWH farm. Nobody was around, and the barn doors were open, so I helped myself to a look around. I came away shocked at what I could only consider overt cruelty.
The youngest horses, weaners, had nice straight legs, but the rest... ugh. Once they were in pads and shoes, the lower leg conformation went to hell. There were horses in 4+" pads, with long toes on top of that. Chains. Leg wraps with Saran wrap next to the skin covering who knows what caustic concoction. Big ol' shoes. Before that visit, I had no idea what the TWH shows emphasized, and I walked away vowing never to see one of those shows.
I wanted to upgrade the whole lot of these good-natured horses, who somehow managed to be gentle souls despite all that was done to them.
Here in Northern California, TWHs are increasingly popular as trail horses. I ride with a couple of them regularly, and they're just great.
Here's a link to an Equus article from a few years ago:
http://www.equisearch.com/horses%5Fcare/health/lameness/soring%5F030706/
Look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_erSUzRR6vo&feature=related
Is it just me or is there something really wrong with this poor horse?
Trying that link again:
http://www.equisearch.com/horses%5Fcare/health/
lameness/soring%5F030706/
All this built-up heavy-shoe stuff is about as necessary as an udder on a bull.
Not only did the great names in TWH history show "flat" (Midnight Sun and many other WGC), but the same is true of the ASB. Find a photo of Wing Commander is his heydey, and you'll see flat shoes and NORMAL feet.
In watching the video and hearing the hoots and hollars of the crowd, but being able to see them, I imagine them all in bib overalls, missing teeth, and married to their sisters. What a shame to take an innocent young horse and do this to them and for what? So a bunch of Goobers and Gooberesses can hoot and hollar as they claw and crawl their way around the ring like crippled spiders? That poor light chestnut about fell down several times. Shame on them all.
I have zero experience with these types of horses but based on this eye opening blog it appears that the TWH industry tops all of the other horse show evils, maybe even combined-
I would rather be a horse riden rolkur in a double bridle with sidereins by a 300 lb dickstick man either at a breakenck speed around barrels, or over a death invoking cross country course, followed by a couple of laps at a crippled 4 beat lope then experience any of this crap....
Thank you SOOOOOOO much for posting this topic. I JUST bought a 10 month old TWH colt that I was going to send to a trainer when it turned 3 because I know very little to nothing about the breed and it's gait. I am getting into them because I have witnessed how smooth they are, how gentle their nature is, and how easy they can be on a hurt back.
I have ridden horses all my life, and my back is beginning to make life in the saddle painful and difficult. So I purchased this colt to raise and be my next life-long trail companion.
I have broken horses since I was a teenager with gentle methods, but since my back is degenerating, I was going to be looking for a trainer to do it for me and to bring out his gait....
After reading this, I am determined to do it myself and I will work his gait like I would a "regular" horse learning to rate their trot. I don't need that flash and pizazz of a sored walker - I just need a smooth trail buddy!
I knew there was cruelty in the breed, but seeing something like that makes me reconsider having a walking horse trainer take over my colt's learning... A lesson like that ANY horse should go without!
2manyminis - TWH riders have no necks. Haven't you ever noticed that? They ride slumped over and look like their heads are just sitting on their shoulders. Perhaps someone grabbed them and tried to stuff their heads up their butts for being so cruel to their horses that the action caused their necks to jam down inside their chests, so now their heads have to sit on their shoulders!
Auntteak,I agree with you, I'm sure the average person has no idea this type of abuse goes on. I had absolutely no idea, but I'll definately tell all of my friends, just like I told them about slaughter.( they thought it no longer happened) Thanks Fugly, for your informative post.
Yay. My favorite topic. My TWH is the kindest horse I've ever known. He's a big, loving baby, still acts like a 2 year old at age 11. Everyone who has met him has been smitten.
I bought him from a light shod-only (ie, only regular keg shoes) breeder--she was adamantly against soring, big lick (big dick is more like it), etc. The big lick feet look ridiculous, and I honestly cannot see how anyone can appreciate a horse that moves in such an unnatural fashion. Something to point out is that the plantation shoes used (what was referred to as "flatshod" in the reader's post) are 3-4 pounds, so I was told. Dimensions of the shoes are up to 1/2" thick, and 1 1/2" wide--huge! Heavier than the padded shoes. Can you imagine a 3-4 pound shoe on EACH FOOT? I don't see the flatshod/plantation shod as being much kinder than padded shod, b/c the soring still goes on. There's still far too much knee action in the plantation shod horses, and it's all for show. Keg/light shod walkers don't move that way. It looks like the horses in the video are light shod.
Sorry if this has already been pointed out--haven't read all the comments yet.
Robyn said, "There's still far too much knee action in the plantation shod horses, and it's all for show. Keg/light shod walkers don't move that way."
I completely understand your point, but I have to point out that SOME TWHs do move with high front end action very naturally. My friend just bought one. He's only 2--he is a padded horse drop out. I've never seen a horse with so much animation up front and such a deep-striding backend... and that's when he's out at liberty just running around being a horse! My friend doesn't ride him yet, because he's just a skinny little thing--trying to grow up. But he blows me away every time I see him. I tell her all the time that HE is the reason people sore their own TWHs who absolutely cannot move that way without some "fixing." But why not just breed them better and leave that soring crap behind? Obviously, if this one horse can do it, others can do it naturally as well. If you want to show, stop buying POS's (not that they are literally POS's, mind you, because I am sure I could find something to love about every one of them), and buy horses that are BRED to be show horses. If you want a trail horse, buy a trail horse. But stop trying to make your trail TWH into a show horse by soring it.
PS--I think big lick horses look like preying mantises (how do you spell the plural, anyway?). They freak me out.
Being from QH/Paint/Appy country, I've known only one TWH in my life, a real sweet fleabitten gray guy who rode as smooth as silk owned by a friend who was a real novice. He took great care of her and was one of the most willing horses ever. So I am very ignorant of the ways of the TWH world.
Until today that is. I've spent most of the afternoons clicking links. I feel just awful ... how can anyone who claims to love equines do this to their horses? Those poor things, and to have the nerve to say that TWHs "mature early" and that's its okay to ride 2-year old horses and do the things they do to them ... I don't even want to think about the soundness issues let alone the mental issues those poor horses go through.
Every breed has its skeletons, but this is horrible beyond words.
I rescued an older TWH mare who was born in the 70's, when all the big lick stuff was really bad (before they started getting heat). She had scars on her fetlocks and the fur had grown in white years before. She had white scars down the side of her cheeks. She was hard to keep weight on, but you could tell that she really must have been something as a youngster; she was built pretty nice and solid but unfortunately had been turned into a fugly through years of abuse. She was sound, too, with great hooves; she never took a lame step with me and I never put shoes on her.
She was the most patient and appreciative horse I've ever had, and was an incredible teacher. She never lost her positive attitude. I'm glad I had the opportunity to make the last few years of her life comfortable and full of love, something she really deserved to have her whole life. I think their patience and honesty is a major factor in why this breed is abused so much like this in the first place; they really do just put up with it and retain their positive attitude. They're amazing, and I think it's so sad that their industry awards asshats who abuse their horses.
This is VERY interesting! Go to this page:
http://www.walkerswest.com/Champs/Ancs/AncestorList.htm
Start clicking on the champions from the 1920's, 30's 40's and then go to modern day champions. You will see how a lovely breed of horse has been generationally perverted into something grotesque.
It's like watching those pictures of Michael Jackson's face after each plastic surgery.
Lisa, haha, thanks. I live in Northern Indiana. I don't see a lot of them in my county at all. In fact, at the local shows, gaited or saddleseat horses were seen as "useless". Sad, really.
...and just so I'm not misread, I'm not talking about the horses pictured in hand, it's the pictures of the horses under saddle that you will see how the original gait on horses years ago has been rendered artificial on those awful big lick horses.
Here is a champion in 45 and 46. He didn't have any of that fake knee action, and he looks as if gaiting how he natural goes.
http://www.walkerswest.com/images/Champs/midnightsunaction.jpg
Even in that blurry picture, the rider is at least sitting up. The horse also is..OMG...level!
http://www.walkerswest.com/images/Champs/MidnightSunflatwalk.jpg
And for kicks, this image just amused me. Little mini clones.
http://www.walkerswest.com/images/Champs/MidnightSunNFoals.jpg
I forgot to add this
http://www.walkerswest.com/images/Champs/MidnightSunNHarlinHayes25.jpg
Tell me a 26 year old walker today who looks that good who was been shown to the point of breakdown, and shown at too young an age, plus soring?
I'm sorry, but if that horse was alive today, I'd scoop him up in a heartbeat.
Those are some long-suffering horses. I've read about them not just using the atrocious gag and/or curb twisted wire bits, but also TWISTING the curb chain and tightening it to the point that the lower lip goes numb from lack of blood flow.
The horses I've had wouldn't stand for it. I once let someone from my barn help me tack up my jumper at a show and foolishly didn't check the bridle. Turns out she didn't know how to do a curb chain. She put it on twisted and a bit tight. As soon as I got to the schooling ring and really picked up the reins, he started to get upset. My trainer discovered it just a few minutes later, but he was already in such a state that we didn't show him that day. Based on my horse's reaction, I can't imagine how those horses don't kill the asshats who abuse them.
Even the thought of doing such horrible, torturous things to a horse makes me sick to my stomach (or is that all the starbucks whipped cream?). It kinda makes me think that those poor horses are too tolerant and forgiving for their own good - imagine trying to do something like that to a TB or arab!
I always knew there was something "off" about the TWH thing. I never liked the look of it. Of all the things that are done to, with and by horses, this is the most unnatural looking I can think of.
Thanks for the education, as usual, fugs!
I created an account to leave a comment just to say that I would really like to clarify that such soring practices are unique to Walkers. Morgan, Saddlebred, and Arab people do not take part in these abuses. The horses do wear chains for encouraging high action, and rubber tubing is used to train muscles, and there are definately some bits out there that make me cringe, but the horses in general are not abused, used, burnt out show horses. I rode at a barn that sent horses to the world championships and we frequently went on trail rides, and the horses are out for 12 or more hours a day. The tail sets you see on Morgans are not at all painful or cruel, they fit like a harness and hold the tail in a position that will encourage use of muscles to hold the tail up naturally as is desirable in the show ring so the horse does not need painful gingering or likewise to produce this effect.
I just wanted to point out that saddleseat riding is not all evil! Most walker people will call themselves that-- not saddleseat riders but walker riders.
Those hunched over men in those long black coats look soooooo creepy to me. I guess they would have to be pretty creepy to feel okay about doing such inhumane things to their horses just to win a show.
Here's a petition someone started:
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-big-lick-tennessee-walking-horse-shows/sign.html#se
I have taken lessons on TWH's and they are barefoot and look lovely in their natural state. It's very sad to see this happening.
To me, using these tactics is like an Olympian using steroids - you should not get the gold for doing something to your body that is unnatural - and the sored and "enhanced" horses should not be placed in shows. Owners should be penalized and fined and animals removed from their "care" - using the term loosely - due to the fact that this is clearly intentional.
As a walking horse person who has been involved with this breed for several years, I felt inclined to clear some things up.
First of all, the bands that are used on these horses do not cause any pain when used correctly. As with anything else, in the wrong hands, they can be abusive, but they are not intended for this purpose. I have 5 walking horses currently: two are barefoot, two are keg shod, and one has the lite shod shoe on with bands (which have to be removed for shows, which is no problem). The reason I keep bands on this mare is that it allows me to keep her shoes snug for our daily workouts (which usually involve rough terrain, mud, etc.) These shoes are not very large, and if they are made with standard materials, can be kept on without bands, however, I prefer to lessen my chance of having to hunt for a lost shoe out on the trail. Some of these shoes are made with tungsten or other more dense metals, that are heavier than the legal limit but still fit the legal size dimensions. These shoes have to be held on with bands because they are too heavy for the hoof to carry for long periods of time without the band. However, if the horse is shod legally, as mine is, the bands are an option rather than a neccesity.
As for FOSH, I can't say that this is an organization that I will support. They seem to associate any head-shaking, deep-striding "walkin' fool" with sore horses, and that just isn't the case. There are some phenomenal SOUND flatshod horses out there, but with FOSH if your horse is too "walky" they automatically assume foul play, and in doing this have alienated some of the true horsemen in this industry. They also seem to condemn showing ex-padded horses in their shows, which I totally disagree with. There are so many nice horses that get culled out of the padded barns, and they make some of the best flatshod walkers you could imagine, but the 30 or so days they spent on pads as a two-year old ruins them in some peoples opinion. This is total BS. I have found NWHA to be more rewarding of talented flatshod horses, and they have a better idea of the difference between talented and sore.
Ok, this is enough of a book for now.
If you want to show in Michigan you can't do this type of crap. My sister shows with the WHAM (Walking Horse Association of Michigan) and they have a DQP check all 4 of the horses feet before EVERY class for any evidence (even scars) of any type of soring. They also don't allow the large thick heavy shod horses up here either. From our experience in the circuit people are appalled that those practices ever existed and they work VERY hard to re-educate people up here about the TWH breed. So as far as Michigan goes, I wouldn't worry that horses are being abused...at least not TWH show horses.
Ah yes "big lick" is what those big heavy shoes are called. They're not legal for the TWH circuit in Michigan, but it's still common practice in Kentucky and Tennessee. Like I said, the WH association here in Michigan worked very hard to change the rules about training and showing walkers to get rid of this type of abuse. Now we need this common sense to trickle down to the Southern states.
Personally our TWH is barefoot and shows in the trail pleasure and equitation classes and is always in the ribbons. He's also a fantastic trail horse and probably has one of the nicest dispositions I've ever come aross. Don't let what Fug posted scare you away from TWH or the TWH show circuit, at least up north. Up here it's a wonderful bunch of caring people, but then like I said, they worked really hard to get the assholes that use abusive tactics out of the organization, and the practices made illegal.
Oh my gosh I'm sitting here crying! That is so sad, I cannot believe that someone would do that (especially putting golf balls in their shoes???) just for a gait. People are so cruel. :'-(
That made me physically sick to my stomach to read. I knew it was bad, but you just educated me to a much fuller extent. Why in the hell would anyone want to do this to an animal and why hasn't it been stopped? The beebees in the shoes???? Those people should be made to walk around with beebees glued to the bottoms of their feet and not be allowed to sit down at all. Good grief, I am sick!!!
Blogger kinahaji said...
Crunchberry's mom said...
"this is the one i've been waiting SO long for... any second we will be BOMBARDED by the big lick people."
Actually, I don't think so. They don't seem to give a damn what the rest of the horse world thinks of them.
April 28, 2008 3:35 PM
i kinda figured the douchebag 'HOGGUIDE" from youtube would show up.. seems as if he spends 1/2 his day on youtube calling people 'uninformed' and 'ignorant'... while defending big lick abuse and claiming to be a farrier.
So glad to see this topic!
I own two TWH geldings with completely different histories.
My baby, who is now a 6y/o has been mine since he was a yearling. He's never seen any abuse or soring, and is quite the spoiled little shit. Phenomenal athlete with a great work ethic and a ton of heart. Started him under saddle myself (at a proper age!), and he was a dream.
Was so impressed with him that I bought another. At the time, the other horse was a 6 year old (he's now 9). He's a full brother to a recent WGC. He was an emotional trainwreck - he'd freak out if you got near his front feet, you couldn't put a bit in his mouth without a fight, and you couldn't use leg on him while riding, or he'd just panic. Didn't know this before I looked at him to buy - i bought him out of pity. THere's no question in my mind, with where he came from and his pedigree, that he was sored and then some. The first 6 months i had him, i couldn't have him around other boarders, for fear they would make a sudden quick movement - he'd nearly flip over trying to get away - he was just terrified of everyone and everything.
Three years later, he's made a lot of progress. I think I regretted buying him every day for the first 2 years, thinking he was a lost cause. I finally made the decision to start him completely over, from the ground up. At liberty, he always trotted, and so he began a new life as a walk-trot-canter horse. It was a long hard road.
He doesn't do well with change. He really only trusts a couple of people. On the 1-10 scale for hotness, I'd rank him around 100. But the fear is gone. He's merrily riding in an unjointed kimberwicke, moves fluidly off my leg, stands for mounting, and when he sees mom wildly gesture at something, he doesn't even blink. He's the quirkiest damn horse i've ever met. Within the last 3 months, he's decided he wants to start gaiting again. It *has* to be his idea still, but we'll work on that.
This big-lick thing just looks silly - these horses have such fantastic natural gaits and temperaments, and i'm just amazed at how much they will take and how much heart they have. Fugly - if you're ever in my area and want to try out a fantastic naturally gaited TWH - you have an open invitation!
Cut,
The rubberband is a pretty good analogy. I think of it as suppleness, and elasticity. When you see a good dressage horse going there is a swing to its back. Kind of a spongy look.
The best piaffe I've ever seen, including Rembrandts was a little black arab mare. I swear she had suspension to it. She lifted those hind legs, and her ears just flopped. Yeah, pretty stressed out about the whole deal. lol
The only thing more horrifying than that utube footage of the TWH that I have seen is the Mexican slaughterhouse video footage.There is nothing remotely functional or natural about these horses and their movement.What can their longevity be with the stress on their joints.They were struggling simply to get around the ring without falling down-literally!I say take all those breeders, trainers,owners and trainers-stick them in a pair of three inch stilletoes, after rubbing their toes and heels with draino-strap a marine corps issue backpack on them-and have them run full tilt.I hate to say it but even the flat shoed TWH's look like they are laboring along-but at least that is natural.Wait, I think I may puke...or resign from the human race.
look at this genius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDoNsu8JUSE&feature=related
Those poor horses, they look crippled. And why are the riders all hanging onto their necks.
Maigray - that web article was excellent.
Anyone that partakes in soreing, the chains, etc will NEVER admit that it is painful or harmful to the horse. C'mon this is bullshit, and unreal.
Wearing those platform things is hardly like wearing high heels. We have TWO legs. Horses have FOUR. A horse's body is all about balance and proportions.
I've heard about this stuff before and it makes my brain hurt. I just can't justify any of it, and can't fathom that people really do this.
I can't stand watching the videos of the shows. Wow those big guys really look like they are enjoying the ride huh. Oh yeah, especially when the horses stop and look like they are going to fall over.
When you can't even ride a horse in a balanced upright position, shouldn't that tell you it's not right? I also hate how when every horse stops their sides are heaving. It looks so difficult for the poor things to go around like that.
my favorite defense is when they compare the padded shoes to women wearing high heels... but the women choose their footwear. the horses have no choice!
Check out these idiots!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXe3xmLH86o&NR=1
Argh!
Here's an excerpt from a gaited horse page that talks about soring.
~~~~~~~~~
When a horse goes through the DQP inspection he is subject to visual and physical examination. Horses that flinch at palpation (firm handling of the feet and legs) raise red flags and may be disqualified from competition. So after enduring the pain of soring, horses are taught to deny it.
Techniques defy even the most sick and brutal imaginations. While one "trainer" palpates the painful area, another stands in the ready to steward the animal. The slightest flinch may result in anything from a severe blow to the head, jerking of a cord attached to a metal "alligator clip" clamped to the genitals or anus, a cigarette burn to the tongue or other ingenious method of inflicting even more pain than that of the palpation. The result is that the horse learns to stand still for the lesser of the two punishments.
~~~~~~~~~
And here is the link, if you can stand it.
http://iceryder.net/sore.html
simply_complex...one thing you learn about human beings is they can justify ANYTHING, if it serves their purposes.
Abusive men say their wife "asked for it" or "made them do it." Violent religious fanatics claim their actions are justified in the name of whatever god they worship. And trainers and exhibitors who do evil things to horses say it's the only way to win and that it doesn't really hurt the horse.
The only way to fight them is to beat them in the show ring with horses who have not been abused. And the only way to do that is to create strong pressure from within the industry for change so that the judging changes.
I know people lurk (or stay anonymous) on this blog who are major players in their breed or discipline. You guys are the ones who have to force the change. You have the power. It's up to you.
There's no need for a ban on anything. Instead, how about making the freaking JUDGES wear this type of torture device on their feet ala TWH, walk about with their heads below their waist level for a few days ala WP, etc? If the judges weren't placing these monstrosities, owners and trainers would have no call to torture their horses this way.
reading that makes me feel sick!!
My comment two days ago on the "asshat" topic:
gaited4me said...
You ARE DEFINITELY an asshat of the first magnatude if you sore, pad, pressure shoe, use chains, harsh bits or otherwise abuse your Tennessee Walking/gaited Horse.
April 26, 2008 4:52 PM
Got in on this discussion too late to add anything except:
FHOTD: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
Talking about how freaked out the big lick horses are brings another issue to mind: judging shows with gaited horse classes.
When you judge open shows in the VA/TN/NC/WV area you are going to run into gaited classes. If you are lucky they will be flat shod. If you're unlucky there will be pads and the a$$hats that use them.
The first show I attended back here had gaited horses and it freaked me out.
First off the gaited horse riders had NO concept of ring etiquette. They rode right up on each other, cut one another off and didn't care if a child was put in danger because the whole issue was the GAIT.
I had my daughter in a few novice classes with her welsh pony and pulled her out of the show after I watched a class where the judge saw a kid on a TWH gait his horse up right over the back of the pony. Scariest thing a parent can see at a show, and the judge did nothing to prevent it.
The second thing was the freaking spectators acting like idiots. In 35 years of showing, rodeos, dressage, playdays, polo matches etc I had NEVER seen anything so horrendous. Parents shouted at the judge to watch their kid, calling out the numbers and berating the judge if he watched someone else. Parents and trainers ran along the rail outside the ring clapping and shouting to make the horse go faster. One trainer cracked a lunge whip every time his students went past to make their horses step up. This was an OPEN show. There were kids on QHs/arabs/morgans in the ring with the gaited horses and they were almost getting killed. When the hell is this behavior acceptable?
I tell you what: go to a jumper or dressage show and run around outside the ring shouting and they will escort you from the grounds and forbid you to come back. Go to a polo match and run up and down the "boards" waving your arms and you're likely to get cocked in the head with a mallet.
Then I got the wonderful experience of judging a mixed show. By now my poor mind had evidently locked away the image of crazed gaited horses being shouted at, because during the first open class when the ruckus started up I almost drop my clipboard and I'm sure my chin hit the dirt.
Oh HELL no! No trainer is going to yell at me to watch his student. I called a halt, walked over to the announcer's booth and asked for the microphone. I then proceded to announce that ANY shouting, fence smacking, whip cracking or noise making during ANY class would get the spectators removed from the grounds. I made it very plain that it was a mixed horse show and the spectators were going to respect EVERYONE in the ring. I heard some grumbling, but I also got some applause, I assume from the stock horse and hunter people. The rest of the show was orderly, but the gaited classes were more subdued than any I had seen before.
What I don't get is why ANY parent would let their kid ride a big lick horse. It is beyond dangerous and teaches them so many bad habits that will just ruin them for the rest of the horse world. Heavy hands, poor seats, lack of balance, and even a lack of consideration for the horse. It just boggles the mind.
Tracy Meisenbach
www.trinityapp.com
http://thehorsediary.blogspot.com/ (updated 4-27-2008)
These shoes have to be held on with bands because they are too heavy for the hoof to carry for long periods of time without the band.
~~~~~~~
And I don't think that's doing the horse's legs any favors at all. It does nothing but promote soreness and extraneous, pointless knee action.
I'm not a fan of horse showing of most any kind. But w/ many breeds of gaited horses, the aim has become to exaggerate the natural gait. This developed in walkers when someone discovered that the TWH shows were way more exciting when the horses lifted their feet real high. I've seen similar bizarre, exaggerated head bobs in Foxtrotters, and there is some fear among the Icelandic community that there are soring practices done there as well.
There is nothing better in the horse world than a gaited horse that covers ground in a natural way, WITHOUT THE USE OF HEAVY SHOES OF ANY KIND! Tacking a 3 pound shoe onto a horse's foot is bullshit, plain and simple.
those big lick horses I saw seemed content with the stall time, and all the fussing over their pasterns, tailsets, blankets, etc. Fed straight alfalfa where the barn smelled of ammonia of course.
~~~~~~~~
Content?! No, they were in too much fucking pain to do anything else except stand there. That's what all the "fussing over their pasterns" is all about.
>>Parents and trainers ran along the rail outside the ring clapping and shouting to make the horse go faster. One trainer cracked a lunge whip every time his students went past to make their horses step up. This was an OPEN show. There were kids on QHs/arabs/morgans in the ring with the gaited horses and they were almost getting killed. When the hell is this behavior acceptable?<<
UNBELIEVABLE. I am SO GLAD you put an end to it. I swear, if that had happened when I was teaching and "my" kids were in the ring, I probably would have gotten arrested by my reaction.
Seriously, were they raised by wolves? WHO THINKS that would EVER be ok? WOW.
Right on, Robyn!
Alison
Bravo Tracy.
Manners count everywhere. We demand them from our horses, it should be a no brainer for people.
You're right Fugly, they do look ri-god-dam-diculuous. Those riders look like sacks of potatoes on little toy horses. Besides, who really wants to ride a "big lick" gait outside the show ring? It not only looks stupid, it's totally unpractical. I'm all for smooth gaited horses, but these horses look like their joints would blow out halfway down the trail. And add to that the fact that cruelty is involved, it's just inexcusable.
Off topic, but there's a poopstorm brewing on Portland, OR's craigslist about abused horses in Warrenton. This charming poster takes the opportunity to trumpet about horse slaughter -- how awesome it is! Please feel free to let them know how you feel, and also feel free to let Clatsop County law enforcement officials know how you feel about the "great job" they're doing -- NOT. An earlier post has graphic photos of some of the horses involved.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pet/660152336.html
Crunchberry's mom said...
"i kinda figured the douchebag 'HOGGUIDE" from youtube would show up.. seems as if he spends 1/2 his day on youtube calling people 'uninformed' and 'ignorant'... while defending big lick abuse and claiming to be a farrier."
HA HA! My youtube videos were attacked by Hogguide, too! Said they were "soft trotting." Apparently, that's what he thinks about any horse not pacing up a storm, wearing giant pads and sored up. I know what a soft trot is... and my horses don't do it. Granted, they are square, but they aren't THAT square. That dude is a piece of work.
I also had some farrier from Tennessee once tell me at a show that my horse was doing the "country shuffle" because I didn't have a 6 inch toe on him. He also proceeded to tell me how I could road-founder him and make him really step up. I can't remember what else he told me about soring and how I could win if I fixed my horse up a bit... I told him that I actually loved my horse and liked him just the way he was, country shuffle or not. Funny how my horse then proceeded to win first place. Oh, and Lite Shod Horse of the Year in my state that year. Granted--TWHs aren't big in my state, but still... guess that country shuffle wasn't so bad after all.
Our first local show is next week. I'm sure those NHSC DQPs will really be doing their job... NOT so much. I have no idea why I have to pay them $10.00/class to watch them allow scarred, sored up, sad TWHs into the class with me. Personally, I wish the USDA would show up at every show. I kind of enjoy showing by myself. :)
I'm telling you, though--you talk about people inside making the changes. You'd be surprised just how scary these sored horse people are. My horse has been threatened in stupid podunk local shows because of my speaking out against soring and taking a stand at shows--I sleep at the show barn or take my horse home every single night at local shows because I'm worried about what someone might do to him. I also get to worry about somebody bribing the already crooked DQPs to claim my horse is sored--even though he is clean as a whistle and always has been. Granted, I highly doubt anybody would do it, because I'm small potatoes, and I'm the first to admit my horse is NOT a national quality show horse (although he IS the greatest horse on the planet...) Wait... why am I showing again? I'm clearly an idiot. But I really feel strongly about showing a clean, sound, naturally moving horse at these shows. Even when I lose, it's pretty clear to anybody with half a brain which horses are clean and which ones aren't.
And of course I've said too much. Hope none of the people I show against read this blog.
the Waaay back pose of the TWH is also an over done exaggeration of their natural stance. Due to the unusual conformation of the horses you will often see them stand in a "stretched out" position. However as with other things, it is contorted and is over done.
I will have to admit when not over done it can be very attractive. They should be stretched in the back and rocked up on their front so that the front legs are up under then like they were standing normally with the hind legs stretched out. However you won't see many that actually get their horses to set up correctly because they have them stretched to far and the horse just can't push themselves up on their front legs without moving their back legs. Which BTW they know better than to do.
Terria - I love it when the USDA shows up. I enjoy watching all the "trainers" run for cover and scratch their horses rather than get caught. That is a show worth watching.
This has got to be the worst industry there is. Its fucking horse CRUELTY plain as day.Id like to see racehorse trainers try putting chemichals on their horses to make them run faster. Theyd get booted out so fast they wouldnt know what happened. Why the fuck people are involved in this extreme part of the industry or support it completly escapes me. Except of course $$$$$$$$$$$$ which explains alot (including their lack of moral fibre)
It makes me SICK
They look so much nicer when theyre relaxed and havnt got all that shit on them, running in the paddock.Why do we have to take their natural gait and fuck it up.
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