Reply to: mailto:sale-621872931@craigslist.org: 2008-03-28, 12:24PM CDT We have a 2 yr old Blue Roan Quarter Horse colt 14HH and a 8 year old Sorrel 15.2HH Appendix mare that we will trade for a good working tractor, we are looking for something like a Ford 8N, 9N or a Jubilee - open to other tractors that have wide fronts. Tractor must be in good running condition with 3 point hitch and preferably a bucket. - Good brakes also. Mare is green broke and is a great- granddaughter of Secretariat, would excel at barrel racing, was started on pattern and hauled as a 2 yr old. Blue roan is a mellow boy that my 8 yr old daughter plays on - not broke, does not act studdy he is in with 5 mares and never tries to breed. Both are used to goats, trucks, dogs and cats.
A couple points here:
Even a shitty, non-running tractor is worth more than your green broke appendix mare and an unbroke, ungelded two year old colt. Nobody is going to make this trade with you.
Being a great-granddaughter of Secretariat is about as special as claiming you were Cleopatra in a previous life. Again, not really a sign of value, though I will say that from what I can see, this mare is darn cute and nicely put together.
You have a two year old stallion turned out with mares and you think he never tries to breed them just because, why, he is saving himself for marriage? Let me ask you a question, in case you happen to read this - what do you think costs more money, a bunch of t-posts and hot tape, or feeding the five extra horses you will have next year? I can just see you now staring dumbstruck and saying "well, shucks, we never saw him breed any of them! How did that happen?"
And your eight year old daughter "plays on" your two year old unbroke stud. *sigh*
I am not sure if the next one is selling their faux registry they made up or a horse!
Beautiful Buckskin Painted Sports Horse Registry & Spotted Mare $800. - $1900Reply to: sale-625588055@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-03-31, 5:05PM CDT
N.V.durbe Bar Luke (Thor)Foal Date 6/24/04 Registration # 04-77S PSH Sire: Skip Bar Luke AQHA 1275887 Champion 3 Bars and Skiper W Dam:Durbie Bell by Palmers Easter Night by Stonewalls Master Prominet sires Stone Wall King Daughter of Garmar. Thor is now a Stallion however will geld him if intrested in gelding. Thor has no bad manners. Thor is now in the pasture with 1 gelding, 5 mares and 3 other stud colts with no problems.
He is a proven stallion with his first get foaled 3/19/08 with more due soon. His first foal is pictured below. I have had him since he was three months and paid $2,500. for him. The mare with the foal in the photo is a grade mare and is also for sale. Venus is level headed, loves water and calm. She is a 3 year old $800. with out filly at her side. Venus is a spotted Buckskin. Will also sell bred back to Thor for $1,200. or To my Black & White Homozygous Tobiano Stallion ENS King of Spades for $1,500. when bred to ENS King of Spades with the guarantee that the foal will be Tobiano. See the full bloodline of ENS King of Spades at:http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ens+king+of+spades
I just want to get her address, so all of the kill buyers can send her a Christmas card! She is truly breeding willy-nilly - he's turned out with THREE other stud colts and a bunch of mares! Holy shit! This is going to be like one of those Maury Povich shows where they eliminate three possible baby daddies with DNA testing and the crying skank du jour has to admit that there are six other possibilities, or was that seven? The gelding is going to be out there going "dude, all I know is, it wasn't me, I'm fixed!"
You gotta check out Thor's pedigree - the Three Bars she refers to ISN'T the one we all know and love. And that critter was produced by breeding a part-Paint apparently grade stallion to a NSH mare. WTF? WHY? WHY? WHY?
(The Paint stallion sounds familiar. I've blogged this chick's breeding program already, haven't I? I can't find it but I'm pretty darn sure I have.)
Just more examples...You know what, you'd be surprised how early they are sexually mature. I know of someone whose yearling filly got pregnant due to the neighbor's stud getting loose and getting to her. It happens! If you don't want babies, stop running your ungelded colts out with your mares. I guarantee you that fencing - or better yet, GELDING - is WAY cheaper than feeding an accidental baby until you can sell it. 100% of the time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One of our blog readers has rescued a three year old mare that is nearly dead from starvation in Florida. It's another shocking case of someone who should NOT have had a horse in the first place. We must work together to prosecute these people. If you've ever watched Animal Cops, you know how these kind of people will lie and say they fed the horse and they didn't think they did anything wrong. They need to realize they DID do something ILLEGAL and WRONG...and looking at some bars in front of them should get that message through their thick skulls!
(To the asshats who have emailed me recently stating that neglect cases are proof we need slaughter...oh shut UP already. You will never convince me that we can reduce bad behavior by PAYING PEOPLE for it. That's the long and the short of it. You'll never convince me otherwise.)
And yet another good rescue has to knock itself out cleaning up the mess left by some faux rescuer asshat who apparently couldn't buy hay without her husband. I've said it before, YOU need to have enough earning potential to care for 100% of your horses, even if your husband walked out tomorrow. If you can't say that, you have too many horses. We all know how unpredictable human relationships are -they should NEVER be the sole source of financial security for you or your horses. If you're a SAHM, now is a good time to go to college or get an advanced degree online. Set yourself up for success no matter what the future brings - for the sake of your horses, do it!
Final note - Craigslist gets deleted/flagged a lot. The best thing to do is send me a screen capture of the ad. You can do that by hitting alt-print screen while viewing the ad and then you go to your graphics program, open up a new file and hit paste and voila, there's the ad complete with pictures. Save it as a jpg and you can send it to me. (Sorry, those with Macs, I can't tell you how to do it in Mac. I am Mac illiterate.)
98 comments:
A half paint grade stud and a NSH mare? I had problems remembering what to type it confused me so much! That's insane!! I wish I was a fly on the wall when that particular thought crawled through that person's mind....OH WAIT! I forgot, they're too cheap to manage their horses properly, the mutt was probably an, "OOPS!"
"Oh, how cute, (insert ridiculous Norse mythology name here) is visiting the mares again. Look how sweet he is, he doesn't bother them a bit! ADD A FEW MORE ZEROES TO THAT AD ON CRAIGSLIST HONEYBUNCH!"
Off Topic--
Any ideas on how to handle bogus buyers from sites like Dreamhorse and barrelhorses.com?? I have this crazy guy from "Mayrland"--no kidding, that's how he spells it--that says he is, "Much interested in your Quarter Horse price $1500"
WTF?
fugly... I so agree with you about slaughter. I have been *trying* for years to get it into people's heads that the way to stop the "need" (ha!) for slaughter is for people to stop breeding everything with a uterus, and the way to stop the overbreeding is to STOP slaughter from being profitable!
Kudos to you and thank you!!
The Nigerian type scammers are preying on just about everyone now. They target horse ads too. I've had some amusing e-mails back and forth with these idiots. I like to play with them.
And regarding the "ending slaughter is hurting horses" bunch,I agree with Fugly, here's a big glass of shut the fuck up. Drink up and choke on it.
Good lord, some of these people need to be shot!
A single strand of hotwire would put a quick end to all that Ooopsie! breeding. I love how the 2 year old is a good boy and doesn't try to breed everything, even though he's in with a bunch of mares.
Our colt who isn't quite exactly 2 knows what he has and how to entertain himself with it. Which is why he is next to a bitchy 26 y/o mare who no longer cycles. She cuts him NO slack.
About the starving horses-
Sadly, Mo my 'rescue' Arab mare looked much like the worst of the worst pictured here. When I got her, she was a skeleton with skin complete with daffy duck feet in front.
Funny how feeding her, (I know, what a concept?!?!) dissolving bute (for her founder) in a bran mash and lopping off what I could before the farrier could get to her did wonders for her condition! Her mood improved the second she crossed the property line. Tell me she didn't know!
She blossomed to say the least and I was soon trying to keep extra weight OFF her. I wanted her comfortable without the meds, first off.
One 'friend' upon seeing her shook his head and said I was an idiot for taking her and should have immediatly put her down. She bit him. Hard! I laughed.
Funny thing, the mare everyone had given up on, lived another 5 years in my care. She was back to her old self, sweet at times and cantankerous at others, but I loved her no matter what.
nisiammaja - It's basic supply and demand. If we had a lower supply of horses, prices would go up and nothing would be in danger of slaughter. Slaughter would no longer make financial sense.
I only wish I could get basic economics through horse breeders' heads. I am trying!
BR20X-
That just screams scammer. I tell them no cashiers checks and nothing leaves the property until the funds clear the bank. Usually stops them pretty quick.
Oh and excercise free use of the scammer button option on Dreamhorse, they will no longer be able to respond to ads.
That horse in the first pic is awfully cute (from what I can tell... head down pics are hard). IMHO, it looks like a nice back end and legs. At least she doesn't seem starved or in poor condition like others we've unfortunately had to see. Maybe the owner is talking about a Hotwheels tractor...? ;)
I agree with Horsepoor. I hope they choke on that large glass of Shut the Fuck Up.
I don't think slaughter will bring the prices back up, but it will mean a drastic decrease in the number of neglect cases we see on the news. They can drop the horse off at the KB auction and take home a few $$$ instead onf having to shell out the money for hay for the week.
Beer, cigarettes and scratch lotto's or hay? Hmmmm. We all know which these people will choose.
Hopefully at the auction the horse will 'win' at the new owner lottery, but often they do not.
Personally, I think the argument that slaughter is needed because of all the neglect cases is awesome. I love it when people use that argument because it doesn't even take any energy to crush their mindless asses into the ground with an argument that, ohhh I don't know, actually has a fucking leg to stand on. Because we really want to slow this problem by making a market for all of the fucked over horses out there who had owners who were too cheap to care for them or euthanize them or too lazy to find them a new home, or the ones who breed the shit out of everything because they know they can get a few hundred bucks for slaughter.
Yeah, the only problem slaughter will solve is the problem of rich french people wanting horse steak for dinner. Oh wait, maybe they should slaughter their own horses and stop buying from canada and mexico. Then watch the demand drop like a rock. (I know france isn't the only ones, but I really didn't feel like typing in all of those countries)
On those horses from that shit breeder with the stallion ENS King of Spades. Check out the shit mares. Is it me or do they look wormy and hungry?
http://groups.msn.com/ENSKingofSpades
Ok, so I'll admit it. In my current state I could not afford my horses without the help of my other half. If he left I would have to make some serious changes, like getting a roommate, getting rid of a car payment, not eating out as much as I do now, etc. But my horses would be paid and cared for before I was. Hell, if I had to move in with my parents I would. Of course, I also have a freaking SAVINGS ACCOUNT to cover all the expenses for at least 3 months until I could get the second job or make whatever changes I need to make.
By merely saying "I disagree with slaughter" You are losing a lot of support you could very easily claim back by wording your sentiments more sensibly.
I have no problem with slaughtering animal for food, I have done it myself and I also have no problem with an animal being eaten after it has been killed.
The ONLY and complete issue I have with the slaughter of ANY animal is the way they are treated and the way they are transported and the way they are dispatched.
IF the laws that are already there were implemented.
IF the laws were tightened and made even better.....well, basically the whole problem would be solved.
It is NOT slaughter per se that is profitable.
It is the mishandling, inhumane, horrific means by which the meat is procured that makes slaughter profitable.
If hauliers were MADE to haul humanely, single partitions no double deckers (COME ON America, you are behind the whole world here!!) watered and fed so many times in 24 hours.
Kept in clean, well bedded stalls on arrival.
Dispatched within 24 hours, and dispatched PROPERLY, cleanly and immediate death...well, KB's as we know them would not be able to turn a profit so the whole problem would be self limiting.
As it stands, slaughter "depots" would seem to be needed- somewhere a private horse can be "walked in" by it's owner and, for a set fee, disposed of.
No money, no profit and a dignified end.
There is a potentially huge problem here and allowing your(our)selves to be lumped in with a load of bleeding heart "Let's rescue the liddle horsies" do-gooders is NOT helping our cause, believe me.
We need to offering practical alternatives instead of merely condemning.
I have known some pretty good and fair knackers in my time (and some nasty ones too) but, at the end of the day, they are in it for a profit.
If the profit were to be removed the cruelty would pretty much end, and that would benefit ALL food animals .
We all want to throttle people like this. But I think I might just understand the mentality; the mentality of getting an animal or popping out a baby when you cannot afford one, do not have an inkling about what kind of care they require, or have the stability to follow through with your commitment to provide proper care. Teenage girls get pregnant to trap a boy into loving her or to have a baby to love her. I think people who get or breed too many horses are also consumed by the errant notion that this beautiful, powerful animal will love them (need them), too. I think this is why people who BYB horses also frequently have BYB dogs and tons of kids. They are trying to find love somewhere. We all know that love does not work this way but you can't tell someone desperate and lonely that their grand scheme won't work. They don't want to hear it. And collectors or hoarders are just this same kind of emotionally unstable, desperate person to the nth degree. This is not anywhere near an excuse, I think we all have to take responsibility for every choice we make, just tossing out my theorem.
On the buckskin, maybe they meant the "International Sport Horses of Color, SHOC". I vaguely recalled having come across it before while windowshopping for equines, and googled it. This "registry" now appears to be defunct. It's website redirects to a domain seller, but can still be viewed in Google's cache, and it appears to be the same old crap.
I have such a hard time going to rescue web site..I 110% admire what they do..but it is so hard being limited on my abiity to help...and as we all see not all of these places are reputible...
that poor filly...i just look at mine and hope nothing ever happens ot me that might put them in danger of ending up in a place like that..though i have an after I'm gone form the earth plan" who knows if hte family will follow through...
For Mac users:
Open up Finder,
go to "Applications,"
go to the "Utilities" folder,
open "Grab."
At the top of your screen you'll see the option "Capture" and you can select an area, cap the whole screen, etc.
It saves as a .tiff file, and I'm not sure how to convert it other than opening it in Photoshop.
Fugly:
"Saving himself for marriage," that's a classic.
I have a Ford 8N. Maybe I'll ask the hubby if I can trade it on that mare. NOT!
We paid $2,300 for our Ford 8N. I can buy a mare like the one pictured for $500-$600 around here.
Not rocket surgery.
I am glad you mentioned Gail and Tier in a good light. One of the good rescues. I have always been impressed with her.
Thanks for the advice everybody! I told them NO checks--and that I needed some references from vets, trainers, also asked how long they'd been "in the horse business"...never heard a word back from that particular scammer!
On a side note: Any near Bates City, Missouri? PLEASE GO GET THIS POOR HORSE.
http://fhotd64476.yuku.com/topic/1949
know what bugs me? the use of 'proven' for a stud. Um, to me, proven doesn't just mean that he has a baby--as in, 'see, we proved he can get a mare pregnant!' come on people, almost all of them can do that. Proven should indicate that he's done something of note and/or has offspring that have performance records. But these low end BYBers just think they need to 'prove' his little swimmers can get the job done--ugh! (personally, I wish they would be infertile more often)
barrelracer20x said...
Off Topic--
Any ideas on how to handle bogus buyers from sites like Dreamhorse and barrelhorses.com?? I have this crazy guy from "Mayrland"--no kidding, that's how he spells it--that says he is, "Much interested in your Quarter Horse price $1500"
WTF?
Reply to their e-mail and say: "Your e-mail has been forwarded to the (STATE) Prosecuting Attorney's Office, (LOCAL) County Sheriff's Department, and the (STATE) Branch of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) for investigation. I have also notified Dreamhorse.com and Barrelhorses.com that you are a scammer. Please do not attempt to contact me again. If you do so, it will be considered Harassment (a misdemeanor) and Stalking (Class A Felony) which are prosecutable by law and are not confined to National boundaries."
What I stated above is probably not completely true, however, it'll make the scammers go away.
OT BUt this was too funny not to post
Glossary of Horse Terms
• Hock: Financial condition of all horse owners.
• Stall: What your rig does at rush hour in an unfamiliar city on the way to a big horse show .
• A Bit: What you have left in your pocket after you've been to your favorite tack shop.
• Fence: Decorative structure built to provide your horse with something to chew on.
• Horse Auction: What you think of having after your horse bucks you off.
• Pinto: Green coat pattern found on freshly washed light colored horses left unattended for 2 minutes.
• Well Mannered: Hasn't stepped on, bitten, or kicked anyone for a week.
• Rasp: Abrasive metal tool used to remove excess skin from ones knuckles.
• Lunging: Popular training method in which a horse exercises their owner by spinning them in circles until dizzy.
• Gallop: Customary gait a horse chooses when returning back to the barn.
• Nicely Started: Lunges, but not enough health insurance to even think about riding him.
• Colic: Gastrointestinal result of eating at horse fair food stands.
• Colt: What your mare gives you when you want a filly.
• Easy to Load: Only takes 3 hours, 4 men, a 50lb bag of oats, and a tractor with loader.
• Easy to Catch: In a 10x10 stall.
• Easy Rider: Rides good in a trailer; not to be confused with "ride-able".
• Endurance Ride: End result when your horse spooks and runs away with you.
• Hives: What you get when receive the vet bill for your 6 horses,3 dogs, 4 cats, and 1 donkey.
• Hobbles: Walking gait of a horse owner after their foot has been stepped on by their horse.
• Feed: Expensive substance used to manufacture manure.
• Dog House: What you are in when you spend too much money on grooming supplies and pretty halters.
• Light Cribber: We can't afford to build anymore fencing or box stalls for this buzz saw on four legs.
• Three Gaited Horse: A horse that. 1) trips, 2) stumbles, 3)falls.
THE 12 "MOST IMPORTANT" THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW IF YOU OWN A HORSE....
1. To induce labor in a mare? Take a nap.
2. To cure equine constipation? Load them in a clean trailer.
3. To cure equine insomnia? Take them in a halter class.
4. To get a horse to stay very calm and laid back? Enter them in a liberty class.
5. To get a horse to wash their own feet? Clean the water trough and fill it with fresh water.
6. To get a mare to come in heat? Take her to a show.
7. To get a mare in foal the first cover? Let the wrong stallion get out of his stall.
8. To make sure that a mare has that beautiful, perfectly marked foal you always wanted? Sell her before she foals.
9. To get a show horse to set up perfect and really stretch? Get him out late at night or anytime no one is a round to see him.
10. To induce a cold snap in the weather? Clip a horse.
11. To make it rain? Mow a field of hay.
12. To make a small fortune in the horse business? Start with a large one.
To BR20X - You could also string them along and once they ask for your address so they can send the truck to pick the horse, you give them the following address:
Smart R. Thanu
123 Eat Shit Road
Fuckoff, N. Die, 10022
or call
1-800-FUCKYOU
"He is a proven stallion with his first get foaled 3/19/08 with more due soon." proven what- that he does in fact have balls and the ability to use them???
another way to get a screen shot on a Mac is thus:
apple key + shift + 3
(not f3, just 3)
these "breeders" as so deluded. but i do think that top mare is a pretty good lookin' specemim, at least from that one picture.
just to expand on zhenya's tip:
apple(command)+shift+3 will copy the whole screen on to your clipboard. adding control in there will save the pic straight to your desktop as a .png
I also like doing apple+shift+4, which gives you little crosshairs and you can select just a certain area of the screen (I love this tool, use it alllll the time).
Karen V
That is a classic and one I will use.
I played a scammer along, they asked if a show bit I had for sale was in full working condition, what the price was, and color....huh?
So interestingly enough, the scammer couldn't keep his story straight and changed his name 3 times in the course of our emails. Had a great chuckle out of that one....
Kirri - How is "I am against slaughter" not a sensible statement?
I don't think anyone - other than a complete moron - would think that a horse blog is arguing that no one should die, not even the chickens! There are those of us who feel that way, but I personally have never heard the vegetarian/vegan movement use THAT phrase to push their agenda.
It's clearly anti-HORSE slaughter.
And haven't we already hashed out the idiocy of the argument that it costs SOOOOOOOOOOOO much to euth a horse? To dig a hole and shoot it?
I thought the FHOTD crowd might find this as wonderful as I did: Yesterday morning, one of my professors had to put her oldest horse down because of colic - twisted gut. Obviously that's not the wonderful part, but here's what is: He was 34 years old, and she had owned him since he was 8. She owned him for 26 years. She brought him with her when she lived in Virginia and then brought him with her when she moved up to central New York. He was a horse who never wanted for anything, never had to adjust to a new owner or rider, and had a loving home for his entire, very long life.
I'm so sad for her loss, but I am so happy for their wonderful story. There are good horse owners, just not enough of them!
Emma - every time I see a story like that, I say that I'm sorry for their loss but SO happy the horse had the home he/she deserved!
>>know what bugs me? the use of 'proven' for a stud. Um, to me, proven doesn't just mean that he has a baby--as in, 'see, we proved he can get a mare pregnant!' come on people, almost all of them can do that.<<
As I always say, Kevin Federline is a super fertile little bastard...does that make HIM breeding material?
I only wish I could get basic economics through horse breeders' heads. I am trying!
I still think shame is also very powerful, and don't be afraid to ask the hard questions to make people stop and think. When some asshat says they're about to breed their fugly Morgan/Paint/Paso Fino cross to some backyard Friesian, or they're about to breed their fugly grade mare to a neighbor's nothing special Quarter Horse, don't say "oh great, the baby will be so cute!" Say "why? What are you planning to produce? What are you trying to breed that you can't buy? Why do you think those two horses will produce a nice foal?"
Today's stallion probably doesn't bother those mares because he's probably already impregnated all of them. Argh.
Barrelracer20x -
P-P-P-Powerbook!
419 Eater
I think NetPosse has an article on how to deal with scammers as well.
Fugly, I just have to write (since I admitted I sold horses during a nasty divorce) that you are correct on having the means to take care of what you own, spouse or not. Another side of that coin is that you need to make sure you will ALWAYS have ACCESS to those funds, which is the disaster I faced. I had a means to make more money via my education, but couldn't get out of the blast hole fast enough to save everything and everyone, which I could have, if the ex had not cleaned out accounts and otherwise legally locked up joint funds.
Life is learning, most of which should take place before giving birth and getting animals.
I applaud this blog for doing what many are afraid to do. And for bringing awareness to people about the real issues.
Please help by signing my petition to end slaughter.
http://www.gopetition.com/online/17693.html
Asshats are everywhere!
http://suvalley.blogspot.com/
A friend has two free foals. He pasture boarded his mares, with other mares that had foals at their sides. This was in a very large range pasture. A boarder did not bother to wean his colt from the mare and the following spring he bred a few mares. Fortunately, he made lemonade out of his lemons and one horse is a prelim eventer and the other is coming along (better dressage scores but not a big jumper).
Not my yearling, not my dog, not my child, not my fault...it's all the same. Lack of responsibility abounds.
Why is the concept of fencing so hard for some people to figure out. It doesn't need to be super fancy, but it does need to be safe and work. Also why won't people geld? is it in fashion to have a stallion?
I enjoy that they will geld him if the buyer wants but they won't just go ahead and geld him now. Maybe they should think about it, snipping off those two balls will save you a lot of money. Insurance costs will go down, and all those pesky little babies that keep cropping up that you have to feed will stop happening! What a concept!
I laughed when you mentioned animal cops. I have been banned by my friends from watching that show. Because inevitably whenever I watched it one of them would get a phone call from me during the show ranting about how irresponsible, retarded, and cruel people are.
Totally OT, but just saw this on CANTER Michigan's site (Trainer's page):
Dispersal Sale
Due to illness in the family, Abahazy Farms is having a dispersal sale. All of their stock is for sale and no reasonable offer will be refused. All of the horses are sound and in excellent health/condition. They have been imprinted and would make great H/J or dressage prospects. The sale is currently in progress. CALL TODAY if you are interested in any of the wonderful horses available!
Location of Abahazy Farms
57835 Eight Mile Road
Northville, Michigan 48167
248-437-2812
"Ranchipur", 8 year old mare
"Tibor", 7 year old gelding
"USS Goliath", 7 year old gelding
"Buda", 6 year old gelding
"Queen Pin", 5 year old mare
"Fire Magic", 5 year old gelding
"Black Comet", 5 year old gelding
"Golden Brynn", 18 year old broodmare
"Moon Glitter", 11 year old mare
"Capricious Lee", 11 year old mare
"Exotic Gold"(FLA), 11 year old mare
"Hungarian Beauty", 10 year old mare
2007 filly, Perfect Circle/Moon Glitter
2007 filly, Double Deposit/Golden Brynn
2007 colt, Double Deposit/Hungarian Beauty
2007 colt, Double Deposit/Exotic Gold
"Abahazy", 26 year old stallion
"Adios", 12 year old stallion
link:
http://www.canterusa.org/michigan/
sale/sale1.htm
LOL...I think my husband is about to ban me from watching the Animal Cop shows. I'm addicted.
Last night's episode of Animal Cops Houston was sickening. I want to jump through the TV and bitch slap the worthless scuzzballs. I'm glad there are people who can do that job. I don't think I could. I'd end up in jail.
Where is the appendix mare located? For some reason I think I know that mare, I trained a mare a couple years back that looked just like her.
Blogger barrelracer20x said...
Off Topic--
Any ideas on how to handle bogus buyers from sites like Dreamhorse and barrelhorses.com?? I have this crazy guy from "Mayrland"--no kidding, that's how he spells it--that says he is, "Much interested in your Quarter Horse price $1500"
WTF?
April 2, 2008 9:08 AM
---------------------------------
Report them as a scam to dreamhorse. It is more than likely some jerk from Africa trying to scam you.
I usually tell them in huge red letters where to go and that I am not an idiot to believe their emails. I have also told a few that I wish my country would Nuke theirs so we could be ride of their BS.
OT but did anyone see the new Animals Cops Houston last night?
I'm from the area and wanted to shoot the people who were pulling starved horses from their bumper down a freeway!!!!
I love that the woman was so suprised when they cuffed her after the civil trial.
What an asshat.
OT but if someone could explain the marketing strategies on this one, I would really appreciate it because I just don't understand.
http://dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1181457
Yep, saw Animal Cops Houston last night and wanted to kill all the asshats featured.
The two starved horses broke my heart especially when the poor Paint mare collapsed in the stall. They ended up euthing them.
I wanted to put a severe beat down on the asshole who was supposed to be caring for the Shih Tzus too. That poor old blind toothless Shih Tzu mewling like a cat was heartbreaking. Sickening.
I should probably stop watching in consideration of my blood pressure. LOL
BS alert team member: You are right, the horse needs new owners, but only because they must be psycho.
How many different stories and prices she they put on this horse? And halter material? He makes my fugly mare look conformationally correct. I can't believe he's AQHA, he looks like some kind badly put together pony. I don't think I could give them $10 of my hard earned money for him, except they've got him in a pen with junk on the ground and a metal building that's peeling metal! Their lies are atrocious! And they are going to judge the prospective buyers (which is good) but they don't fit the bill either. AAAhhhhh!
akashiru said...
OT but if someone could explain the marketing strategies on this one, I would really appreciate it because I just don't understand.
http://dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1181457
April 2, 2008 12:53 PM
________________________
It's the I'm too lazy to pull him out of the mud and shit and run a brush over him method of marketing. *eye roll*
horsepoor said- << I wanted to put a severe beat down on the asshole who was supposed to be caring for the Shih Tzus too. That poor old blind toothless Shih Tzu mewling like a cat was heartbreaking. Sickening. >>
My god I know! I wished that they could have euther the little thing right there. What a horrible life in that little shack.
The horses were lathered! The temperatures in Houston in summer are well above 100 degrees with humidity through the roof. I can't go from my front door to my car without being covered in sweat and they made these horses march behind their car for 11 miles!
>>I love that the woman was so suprised when they cuffed her after the civil trial. <<
Like I said...they will finally realize their behavior is criminal when they are looking at bars in front of them. For some folks, nothing less is going to get the message across.
Have you noticed that EVERY episode of Animal Cops Houston has starving horses in it?
There was the episode with the young fugly appy colt who had his neck half torn out, the downed bay foal in the backyard, the palomino, the race horse with the 69 tatoo and another with a playboy bunny tatoo (yea, nothing is sexier and says "I am a hot n sexy guy" then keeping scared and starved tbs)
What is the deal with that (and I live just outside of Houston)
It is dis-gus-ting-
I guess the asshats think because they live in Texas they're supposed to be cowboys and have horses. *eye roll*
I still can't get over them tying those two skeletal horses to the bumper and heading off down the interstate. Fucktards.
Seriously of all the animal cop shows, that one is my favorite. The others are ok and I'll watch them but man am I glad there are finally new episodes of AC Houston.
Oh and yes it's amazing how surprised they all are when they get bracelets slapped on them. *headdesk*
Ahhh, I don't get he channel with Animal Cops Houston here at school, but just reading what was happening is getting me worked up. I always wondered how they got those jobs. I would love to be the cop who gets to come in and cuff them up. Oh I can just feel the satisfaction!
I've only seen animal cops a couple times. I don't get it here. It's just so harsh. Frozen starving animals. Most of the people seem unaware or unconcerned that the animals are in this condition. One I saw, a dog was frozen to the cement. Rotten mf'er owners. Then they would wail how much they loved their animal, and how could they take it from them.. AAAAGHGHGH!
I couldn't be a cop or an animal cop. I'd walk into some hoarder's house where the dogs were living in their own waste and I'd want to put the owner on the ground and roll HIM (or her) in it! Make them stay there for a while. I'd lock someone in a stall for 2 years with almost no food or water and let them stay that way. I don't much believe in our "justice" system when it comes to my animals and my children.
I might be one of those wives who'd have to scramble to protect the horses in the case of divorce. I have a degree and a job, but when you're used to having 2 incomes, in almost any situation, going to one would be tough. Luckily, my husband is pretty attached to his mare, too...and many of our assets (including his Harley motorcycle and his car) are in MY name. My mama didn't raise a fool. ;) My parents divorced when I was 12, so I learned at an early age to let most of the financial trust be on HIS part, not mine
Cindy
Cindy, I'm with you. Could never do the job. They'd end up taking me in cuffs. Ever see the movie Seven? Where the killer kills according to whichever one of the 7 deadly sins the victim commited. Yup...appealing. I am a sick bitch. lol
Also, for Mac users, Apple + Option + R will bring up cross hairs that allow you to decide how much of the screen to capture.
People piss me off. *shakes head*
Wow, I thought my wife was a fanatic. Some of you people need serious counseling. You think the world revolves around horses and worship them and anyone who comes into hard times that owns a horse is all of a sudden unqualified to own a horse. The problem is that all of you are such snobs, you wouldn't touch the "mutt" "fugly" etc. etc... with a 10 foot pole. That is, until it's dying of starvation and neglect and then it's 'the poor thing' and 'someone should put it's owner in jail' and the like. Wouldn't it suck if your house got hit by a tornado and all your fencing torn down, and your animals all escaped, and you lost your job and couldn't pay your bills and now have 15 starving horses to feed and sell and get laughed at by people like yourselves. Horse fanatics make me sick.
married2ahorsenut,
So what kind of fanatics are you okay with?
horsenut, jsut as an FYI.... many of the readers here, and the author of the blog, have fugly horses and love them very much :) Sometimes they're the best horses.
http://www.milforddailynews.com/homepage/x481062593
Check out the mares leg in the picture.
Horespoor - None, really. I'm especially against the religious type. I suppose guitar and muscle car fanatics I can put up with. :)
Tornado - I'm not saying anything is wrong with a fugly horse. But I read a bunch of comments about 'asshats' who breed willy nilly and get fugly horses as a result, and they turn out to be owners of the same bad breeding? That's irony. I was pointing out that if you saw that poor starving horse for sale before it was starving you all would have probably found something in the ad to make fun of, or would have thought the animal was fugly. Just pointing out the selective attractiveness that a situation can cause.
Ahhhhh..I think the Trolls are out again.
To be an animal cop there are a couple of different ways to do it. You can be a Vet Tech, work for the SPCA, take the criminal classes and get promoted, you can have a BS in An. Sci and take crimal classes and work for the city, or be a cop. Most animal cops are NOT allowed guns...there is a reason.
As for Houston. I have no idea why this city is horrible. I live here and can't stand driving thru the city and seeing the animals that are in dire straits. I know they put the starving horses on the TV for the ratings but it does seem like there are more starving horses per capita down here.
I'm digging Jim's comb-over!!!
MSPCA SUCKS - Interesting article. I don't know what would have been better for the animal. A .45 to the head comes to mind, and maybe a proper farm burial, if they loved her. I find it hard to believe that the SPCA would charge the man for cruelty because the horse is arthritic. Maybe fine him for not blasting the horse to Valhalla, I guess. But... then... slaughter is not necessary, right?
LOL I am a horse fanatic and a muscle car fanatic. Well 1960's Camaros at least :) I love mine! And I love my horse.
And OMG on the story about the mare in MA. Why the hell hasnt that been on all the news stations?
>>Wow, I thought my wife was a fanatic. Some of you people need serious counseling.<<
Wow, that long since you've been laid? Let me guess, the wife loves her horse more than she loves you...boo hoo hoo.
>>You think the world revolves around horses and worship them and anyone who comes into hard times that owns a horse is all of a sudden unqualified to own a horse.<<
You're afraid your wife is going to read this, get a job and leave your dead ass, aren't you?
>>The problem is that all of you are such snobs, you wouldn't touch the "mutt" "fugly" etc. etc... with a 10 foot pole. <<
Most of what I own is fugly, I've posted pictures numerous times. Some were rescues, some not.
>>That is, until it's dying of starvation and neglect and then it's 'the poor thing' and 'someone should put it's owner in jail' and the like.<<
Well, they should. That is what the law says. Are you suggesting we shouldn't have laws against animal neglect in this country?
>>Wouldn't it suck if your house got hit by a tornado and all your fencing torn down, and your animals all escaped, and you lost your job and couldn't pay your bills and now have 15 starving horses to feed and sell and get laughed at by people like yourselves.<<
Wow, if all that happened to me at once, I'd be wondering who hexed me! If I lost my job, I could temp tomorrow - it helps to have marketable skills. As long as you have a job, there are farms for rent. It's amazing how many people here HAVE encountered financial hardship and have dealt with it in common-sense ways like finding a second job, cancelling their cable TV, etc. - rather than starving their horses.
>>Horse fanatics make me sick.<<
Then, good Lord, what are you doing spending your day reading a blog written by us? Do you enjoy nausea?
Married,
The beef with breeding fugly is you are pretty likely to get more fugly. We have more than enough already. A fugly horse doesn't have good conformation. Good conformation is more likely to stay sound with use. Some or the fugly horses are doomed from day one. It doesn't have as good a chance at survival as a 'pretty' horse. It costs the same if not more to maintain a fugly horse as a pretty horse. So, if you're going to breed, breed to improve, not create more rejects that have very little hope at a good life.
I think the real "Three Bars" is in that buckskin's pedigree if you go back far enough. No sign of the Skipper W in the all-breed entry but he sure has that Weiscampy face. But WTF, why? I can't even see what was gained in that particular cross. And he's a proven stallion because his week-old foal is still alive? Gosh, great.
A genuine emergency can happen to anyone - but the responsible people have at least some back up plan to help - whether that is their children, or animals.
I'm sorry for you poor fantatic-sick chap - hope your life improves ;)
I have plans in place for my guys - I learnt this lesson when I suddenly fell very ill 5 years ago. It's been bloody hard but I have managed to keep my boys in the comfort they deserve, and I deserve to have them to keep me going!
We have enough irresponsible breeding in this country - go to any auction and you can pick up a foal/yearling that is who knows what out of what the fuck. If they have spots they get a couple of quid more a spot....
I bought a incredibly well bred Section C gelding in a terrible state for no money last year - we were going to flip him, but the asshats who came to try him were so awful we loaned him instead - so we keep an eye on him - could have made a £3k profit on him, but he was more important...suckers maybe, but who cares.
I don't understand the trade thing you see in the US - is it a tax thing? Here you very very occasionally see it, as in will swap for patent safety cob, or horsebox, but never cars etc!!
I watched a TV programme about a farm on Dartmoor today - the woman was having several of last years colts gelded - the vet commented that it would cost £150 each to geld, yet the foals were all worth less than a quarter of that...it was a herd of Darties that she had inherited so was weeding out the ones not suitable for breeding - the Dartmoor pony is getting very rare and needs very good breeding practices as the quality has decreased. It was nice to see someone actually doing something positive and responsible on TV.
Nx
The trolls are feeding again. *eye roll*
If I lost my job I'd get another one or two if necessary. I would NEVER allow any animal to starve on my watch.
Dumbass.
Fugly - I wasn't trying to be rude, really.. I just think it's kind of funny sometimes how we can hate something and love it at the same time.
Actually it's been about 5 days, because Aunt Flow is in town.
I doubt she'd leave me, because of what you said in the main blog... something to the effect of "Don't marry a guy so you can use his money to have horses and so forth. I wanted so bad to clip that and send it to her. She's the one who drove me to this site. You have to understand that I'm NOT a horse fanatic. I don't hate them or anything, and I get on and ride every once in a while. But I did tell my wife that she would not be able to count on me for her horse feed and vet bills and so forth; that she would have to be able to do it herself, and that was mainly because of your statement as well, "he could pack up and leave tomorrow and then what?" or whatever you wrote. So, I agree with you totally about all that. I just don't believe in the severe busybodiness that our country has come to embrace. Mind your own fucking business is my motto. If I have a horse and I'm starving like it is, I'm not feeling too bad about it... I'd be more pissed off at the people I was trying to sell the horse to for not buying it just to save it.... and me. I think the humane society should be fining people and rescue places for not buying horses that need help. Instead, they come look at the animal, freak out, and call the law so they can get it for free instead. I think it's wrong that they wait for visible signs of the deterioration of health so they can come in and TAKE AWAY (*steal*) the animal from it's owner, AND cause legal problems for them. Hell, for all we know the owner loves the horse to death and is dying inside watching all this go on. I dunno. I guess I feel for both the animal and it's owner.
>>If I lost my job I'd get another one or two if necessary. I would NEVER allow any animal to starve on my watch.
Dumbass.<<
Hey, I didn't call anyone names... unless fanatic is a name to you. You say that you'd get another job or two would you? Okay, come over here to Las Cruces NM and get a job. My very intelligent and employable wife just finally got another job after 3 months of solid looking. It's not as easy as going to get a cheeseburger from McD, you know.
married2ahorsenut, that's one of the most idiotic, irresponsible piles of crap I've read in a long time.
Troll.
>>married2ahorsenut, that's one of the most idiotic, irresponsible piles of crap I've read in a long time.
Troll.<<
Wow, two names in a row. Kind of puts your character in question as a caring, sensitive being, doesn't it? How can you call yourself compassionate when you want to shit all over someone else's beliefs? I didn't say you couldn't be fanatics, I just said it makes me nausious.
Seems to be a trend lately these shady rescue needing to be cleaned up by legitimate groups.
The (very convincing) couple that ran Fair Dinkum/Homestretch rescue scammed a bunch of folks out of money that was supposed to go to horses surgery and pulling more from auction and then was arrested for tax fraud. USERL stepped right in to clean up the mess and take care of the rescue horses.
"Thor is now a Stallion"
What was he before?
"He is in with 5 mares and never tries to breed."
This reminds me of the people who couldn't figure out why their female pet mouse kept getting pregnant because they took the male out of the cage every night. Hey, maybe it's the same people!
"...and you think he never tries to breed them just because, why, he is saving himself for marriage?"
This sprayed root beer all over my monitor. I should know better by now.
Sorry, there was a typo: it's the Beautiful Buckskin Painted Sports Horse & Spotted Mare Registry. What, you never heard of the BBPSHSMR? Stick around.
About slaughter - as long as there's money to be made, innocent lives will be sacrificed to get it by some slimeball. What will future generations think when they look back at this one? My brain is bleeding. Or maybe it's my soul...
HorsePoor said...
"The Nigerian type scammers are preying on just about everyone now."
Maybe someone has already said this, but this could be a good thing (if the horses don't get hurt - what happens to them in a scam?). Some idiot BYB thinks he's gonna strike it rich breedin' them grade toe-be-anos and instead loses his shirt and has to find a new home for the horse. Oh, wait - he'd probably just stop feeding it. Never mind.
"You have a two year old stallion turned out with mares and you think he never tries to breed them just because, why, he is saving himself for marriage?"
My beloved vet told me a story:
He had gotten a call from a woman who wanted him to come see her mare, she was fat, her udder was "swollen" and she was worried about her.
When he got there, he told her the mare was pregnant and the woman was flabbergasted "How did that happen!?"
He pointed at the stud colt out with the mare.
She was appalled. "She would NEVER!!! That's her SON!!!"
*sigh*
It never ceases to amaze me... the stupidity of people.
Now for a funny story, just to cheer everyone up after having looked at all the idiots, asshats, and people who let horses fucking starve (I have a special dislike of them)
Same beloved vet.
He got a call from a woman who had a foal who needed a check up. She thought it had a hernia.
So he goes out, and the woman explains that the foal has this weird swollen place. Sometimes it's bigger, sometimes it's smaller, but it's always there.
He was absolutely mortified to discover that this woman was referring to the colt's PENIS! And he had to explain this to her.
He said he could understand if it had been a young girl, but this was a woman in her twenties with TWO KIDS!
Sad, but funny. I wish I'd seen his face when he realized what the problem was, and trying to figure out how to explain it without embarrassing himself, or her.
*wicked grin*
Funny stories, Thanks!! The mouse story and the vet stories are hilarious...
>>He was absolutely mortified to discover that this woman was referring to the colt's PENIS! And he had to explain this to her.
He said he could understand if it had been a young girl, but this was a woman in her twenties with TWO KIDS!<<
WOW, was she blonde? You know, that reminds me of a story my wife's grandmother told me. The long and short of it boils down to the fact that it took 3 kids for her to figure out just exactly what it was that was making her pregnant. She divorced her husband for 'tricking' her and hasn't had sex since then. She even showed me the divorce decree where it stated the reason for divorce was 'dishonesty'. She also swears she's not a lesbian, for what it's worth. I couldn't believe she actually admitted that. She was dead serious too.
This reminds of another Craigslist ad I saw years ago where the advertiser was trying to sell an 18-month old *pregnant* filly. She had her turned out with a colt of the same age, and "did not expect them to behave in such an adult manner." Excuse me? They're HORSES. It is not like they have to have the bird and the bees explained to them first . . .
So, yes, I have no doubt this one will end up with some "surprises" as well.
Marriedtoahorsenut - Good afternoon, and welcome to the internet!
Troll is less an insult than a descriptive characteristic of a specific internet personality, but it being your first day and all, I'll let that slide.
I can't really let slide the argument that...let me see if I have this right...your house is hit by a tornado, your fencing is gone, your horses run away, and...you still have to feed the runaway horses?
Of course, that was when you were applying that situation to, oh, any of the posts made in this blog, where it was less a tornado and more a gradual shirking of general duties.
But of course, if it was their child, that would be different. People are only responsible for creatures that cannot care for themselves, right?
...oh, wait. Pets fall in that category, don't they. Unless horses have suddenly learned to ration grain...
Just... wow. I laughed (and cried) at those stories. God bless the vets who tolerate the owners who are horsie hypochondriacs, ignorami and just plain stupid.
I had a 2 yr old filly that I boarded with a wacky lady who thought it would be fine to turn my filly out with her 2 yr old colt thinking since he hadn't dropped on one side that he couldn't breed. This lady acted like she was morally offended when I insisted she pay my vet for the abortion shot.
She also turned same colt out with a 23 yr old foundered as crap pony mare & couldn't figure out why the owners of the pony mare sued the hell out of her for loss of their horse when the mare died trying to deliver the foal.
Needless to say my filly didn't stay there long.
"You have a two year old stallion turned out with mares and you think he never tries to breed them just because, why, he is saving himself for marriage?"
I just shot pepsi out of my nose!! Ah to have your wit Fugly :)
I decided to go to the horse auction Monday night. It's the first time I've been. I never had a desire to go to the auction before because I like to take my time when I horse shop. If folks are in a hurry to sell I'm less in a hurry to buy. ;)
Out of the 200 horses/mules/donkeys/ponies that ran through there that night only a few (could probably count on 1 hand) were groomed and healthy looking. There were so many horses with sores and rain rot with skin and bones.... most of them were grade, quarter or paint type. Some of them were nicer boned but still the sorry shape.
There were two unregistered and good looking saddlebreds that went for a song. They were not as fleshy as I like but not in horrible shape.
This was a sobering experience for me at the Mid America Stockyards. There are just so many of them that are uncared for.
Command-Shift-4 and highlight the part of the screen you want, on a Mac =)
Poor Faith. My new gelding was almost as thin when I got him, and the owner was just as delusional. "Oh he's a little thin. He just needs some food." (that she wasn't getting to him!). I weight-taped him at just over 800#, and he is a solid 15.2. He has gained about 40# now (after a month), is eating well (6-8 flakes of hay, a couple pounds of senior, and assorted minerals/vits that the vet recommended) and starting to show some spunk, esp. w/ the other horses, which is pretty exciting!
Hang in there, Faith's rescuer! You have changed her life greatly, and it'll really start to show soon! :)
spiritofhopefarm wrote: Teenage girls get pregnant to trap a boy into loving her or to have a baby to love her.
I think you're on the right track, SOHF.
A long time ago, when I had a job in social services, I dealt with a lot of women who had been teenaged mothers. Most of them grew up in homes that neglected them and they were desperate for love.
They fell in love, usually had sex because they thought that would make the boy love them and when they realized they were pregnant, they were so happy. They thought the boy would love them, the baby would love them and they'd live happily ever after in a cute little cottage.
Reality, of course, is that it was (and is) terribly easy for boys to walk away from those needy teenaged girls. At the time I had that job, DNA was twenty years in the future--all a boy had to do was dig up at least one other boy to swear he'd had sex with the girl and he was off the hook for child support. Nowadays, it's a lot more difficult to pull off that scam. But a lot of teenaged boys are just as needy as the teenaged girls.
Of course, babies are incredibly needy little critters. They aren't capable of giving the kind of love those teenaged mothers wanted. Pretty soon, the baby was growing up just as neglected as the mother had been.
The happiest period of that teenaged girl's life is often the period where they were first in love, the new relationship ecstasy. It's like a drug! They never experienced the quiet, enduring, contented love that makes for emotionally healthy kids, so that heady new relationship ecstasy is incredibly addictive for them.
And then there's pregnancy and delivery, when the mother is the center of attention, she's filled with all those feelgood hormones that help bond human mothers to their babies.
When the shiny wears off, it's no wonder she goes looking for it again. And again.
I think people who get or breed too many horses are also consumed by the errant notion that this beautiful, powerful animal will love them (need them), too.
Yep. And the same problems exist as with babies. I believe that animals can and do love. But they can't love the way some needy humans want.
Animals are incredibly needy themselves--food, grooming, first aid care, veterinary care, farriers for horses, shelter, it goes on and on.
At first, none of it is really a chore because the new owner is in the grip of new relationship ecstasy. Heck, I've been there! Every minute spent with that animal is incredibly precious.
And then the new rubs off. For well balanced people, that new relationship ecstasy is replaced by a quiet, strong, enduring love that is more powerful but less dazzling than the new relationship ecstasy.
Some people who are not well balanced then go out and start looking for that new relationship ecstasy again.
It's sad. It's a tragedy for every being concerned. There are some happy endings for such needy people but they take much hard work and there is much pain along the way. Too much pain.
I just wanted to thank everyone here that read Faiths story. She has a long road ahead of her but I think she will be okay. She nickered at me last night. I was so happy!!
I have already contacted the local newspapers. The more the public sees what is going on the better. If we can just educate 1 person maybe we can save 1 horse. We just have to do it a horse at a time.
Again I want to thank everyone that read her story.
Also, thank you to those that gave a donation and sent me words of encouragement. You guys have no idea how much it means to me to have your support. When you have a rescue your emotions are a roller coaster and you need all the support you can get.
It just goes to show you, there are still some good people in this world.
I am also having a barn sale this month to raise money to get my 501c. I have made up my mind to open a horse rescue that is so desperatly needed in central Florida.
I want to help all the horses I can. I am afraid their situation is only going to get worse. They need someone to speak up for them and protect them.
Thank you again everyone!!!
P.S. Faith thinks Fuglies blog is the BEST!!!
Oooops, missed this one.....
HSUS, PETA, ADGENDA HERE!!!!!!!!
If you are a salamander, cat, dog, horse owner, BETTER READ......this from another list.............
Oprah: I watched with great interest your show today on puppy mills. I was truly horrified to see Wayne Pacelle of HSUS included in this discussion as HSUS is NOT an animal WELFARE organization. Instead, they are concerned ONLY with animal RIGHTS and their long term goal is a "petless, meatless society." They are allied with PETA in this pursuit. Please go to: http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136and: http://www.dogpolitics.com/my_weblog/2008/04/dear-oprah-.html for more information on HSUS. The REAL Humane Society is the American Humane Society: http://www.americanhumane.org/site/PageServer and they are truly committed to animal WELFARE. HSUS spends little to NOTHING on animal WELFARE but has managed to raise $113+ million by allowing a gullible public to believe it does! HSUS gets its money by letting people believe they are in the business of animal WELFARE when in truth, that is the LEAST of their concerns. There is currently a petition circulating to revoke their tax-exempt status. Please, please, please have your producers check HSUS out more thoroughly. If HSUS gets its way, NO ONE will be able to own, possess or in any other way benefit from an animal. Wayne Pacelle says all the right things and he is certainly easy to look at but he is a strict vegan and if he, HSUS and PETA have their way, we will all end up with no pets, no meat on the table, no leather products, etc., etc. I happen to have 3 Jack Russell Terriers and 2 horses and if HSUS gets their way - God forbid - I would have to turn them all loose or destroy them. Thank you for taking time to read this and I would be interested in receiving a reply from you or your producers. Louise
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