A reader forwarded me this response she got to her note cautioning a "free horse" seller about the dangers the horse might encounter and offering help.
Reader's very polite note (this was all forwarded from Dreamhorse so I can assure you, nothing was edited. I got the original as it was sent back and forth)
"I am a volunteer for (rescue name), and so many times I see horses for free or at such a low price that I am afraid a killbuyer will get them. There are so many horses that get taken and then shipped to Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered and alot of people don't know about it. To keep your horse safe, make sure whomever you give him to signs a transfer of ownership contract. This will give your horse more protection! Here is a link to the one we use at the rescue (link) Please get references.If you want more information about slaughter and what can happen, please feel free to go to our website. We also provide free horse ads for $0 fee horses to keep them out of auction."
That was nice, right? Nothing offensive there. She didn't come out swinging. She was simply being informative and trying to help. Here is what she got back:
To: (name redacted)
Subject: Re: DreamHorse Ad Response: 1303986 (MANNY)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:30:07 -0500
From: cranberryrun@aol.com
Tracey, the next time you want to see trash, look in the nearest mirror. It'll be right there, every time! Sorry to hear that you're such an incompetent horseperson that you can't successfully cure a habit like kicking and have to blame the animal and spitefully send it to slaughter. And I guess it is those racehorses' fault for breaking down on the track, too, and not being horses you can resell at a profit. How very trashy of them!
I'll give Tracey this - she's consistent. I love this ad she posted in August. Take my lame pony or I'll take her to New Holland. Of course you will...
HELLO EVERYONE,
I AM OFFERING ONE OF MY PUREBRED CHINCOTEAGUE PONY BROODMARES FREE TO ANYONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN HER. PATTY IS A 5 Y/O 13 HAND BAY AND WHITE PINTO. SHE DOES HAVE STIFLE ISSUES, WHICH MAKES HER UNSUITABLE FOR RIDING PURPOSES, BUT SHE IS FINE TO LEAD THE LITTLE ONES AROUND FOR THE OCCASIONAL PONY RIDE. SHE IS KID SAFE AND KID FRIENDLY. SHE DOES BEST TURNED OUT, WITH HER STIFLE PROBLEM. SHE IS UTD ON SHOTS AND FARRIER, BUT DOES NOT HAVE A CURRENT COGGINS. THIS IS A FREE PONY, SO IF YOU WANT A COGGINS IT WILL BE AT YOUR EXPENSE. SHE BE AVAILABLE TO THE FIRST PERSON WHO SHOWS UP WITH A TRAILER OR UNTIL I MAKE MY NEXT NEW HOLLAND RUN.
PLEASE CALL ME ON MY CELL FOR FURTHER INFORMATION: 609 217 1812
TRACEY WICHROWSKI
WWW.CRANBERRYRUNFARM.COM"
And for you racehorse trainers who are giving Tracey horses, KNOCK IT OFF! There are plenty of reputable racehorse rehoming facilities that will work with you. Your horses deserve better than this (insert epithet of your choice, I know what I am thinking) deciding they are "trash" to be thrown out with the garbage.
Tracey, I suggest you get out of horses and do something else with your spare time. Like learning how to use lower case!
581 comments:
FIRST?!?!?
I can't BELIEVE this woman!! What a horrible attitude-- and it sounds like she is a very experienced professional, from her website!! UGH!!!!!!
wow. Speechless.
Yay, Fugly, I'm just going to assume this woman isn't listed in your "Welcome Home" section. What an ass she is and now she's outed, Happy New Year!
Yep, that is pretty bad.
An obvious disdain for rescues and that someone felt the need to warn her. She needs a 2x4 upside the head with that shitty attitude.
But do you think she got some dandys replying to her original ad? It would put me a wee bit on edge, but no one says you need to reply, and it was self induced after all. Can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all, pertains here.
I quit looking at horse for sale ads when I found my new horse, as the lack of spelling, punctuation, grammar, you name it, was giving me a headache.
We don't need people like Tracey in the equine industry. If you don't do it because you love horses, get the fuck out.
OMFG. Is there anyone who will out the trainers that are using this fucking waste of DNA to dispose of their horses? I am too shocked to be livid...yet.
This one deserves a very special visit by the Fugly Asshat tour.
I'm sure she will be here soon, or one her BFFs. I just visited her lime green site, slightly jarring, but you would not connect the lovely ( Huh?) couple who own this operation with the person who responded to that rescuer. Holy Cow, How the hell do you know who you are dealing with, now a days? They even have a IMO page...
Did anyone ever see that movie Soylent Green. They would take the elderly and eutanize them. Then they would turn their bodies into food. I guess that is what we do to our useless horses now!
The cowboys in the 19th century did not even do that.
I totally agree that horses are not pets. But when we destroy the breeds with our human bullshit, the animals are the ones that are made to suffer!
And I am sick and tired of people like this fucking Tracy scum making the real professional horsemen look like nothing but a bunch of assholes that have no compassion!
Tracy, of you cant fix a fucking simple kicking habit, then you need to do something else! MORON!
And now for a nice rescue story -- Part 1 published in The Horse today. :-)
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=13353&source=rss
Give em' Hell JR! I agree, horses are just a commodity to them, it just shows that things are not always as they appear.
Also, she needs to learn critical thinking (like so many).
The difference between using horse meat (not necessarily a bad thing).
...and inhumane slaughter practices (bad).
I mean, even people who DO think of horses as livestock can distinguish between those things.
I question what happened to Color Me Charisma "Laci" on her In loving memory webpage...did she too become trash? I half want to email her and tell her to spare us the "image" of looking like she actually cares about the outcome of one of her horses.
Also, consistency, ur doin it rong:
There's a freaking 'in loving memory' link on her website about a horse she lost. I thought horses were just livestock to her??
Yikes. The sad part is how bitter she sounds, as if all horses are out to get her. Having the attitude of "they get a 30-day get out of jail free card" dooms the poor animal to begin with.
Excellent reference to Soylent Green, JR. I totally agree. I also agree that horses are livestock--it's individuals that make them "pets." But my husband and I don't see horses as our pets. If I treated my horses the same way I treat my cats, they'd be walking all over me! I'd rather have my 20-lb fat cat sleeping on my chest than a 1000 lb Walking Horse! :)
Since Tracy brought up the economy, I wanted to let all of you know that the Jan 09 issue of Equus magazine has a huge section called The Frugal Horsekeeper. I haven't read the whole thing yet, but so far it's been great advice. They have a worksheet so you can track your equine expenses, dollar store deals, and where you CAN'T cut costs (such as water, hay, and dewormings). It's great stuff. I never even thought of the things that can be made into barn supplies that you can find at a dollar store! I think I'll be going to one today after work!
Happy New Year, everyone! I look forward to more Fun From Fugly in the new year!
(chants) "Acceptance speech, acceptance speech!"
This person sends a cold chill up my spine. Very creepy.
And what's with the ignorant comment about pet food?
I particularly liked the comment about people "GOING TO BED HUNGRY". The only people going to bed hungry in this country are the ones too lazy to go down and sign up for food stamps or ask a local church for food. There is no excuse to go hungry in this country, none at all. But as much of an asshat as she is, she is responding to the market of unwanted horses. This person is just a sympton of our times, and there are oodles like her. The good news is that for every one of her there are two or three people that do things like rescure starving horses and give them loving homes.
Throw a bucket of water on the bitch and I bet she'll melt! Drop a house on her maybe? Ye Gods!
Oh. My. God.
I hope this blog entry has serious repercussions for her farm. Can you imagine being a client of someone who sends the "trash" to the killers?? What happens if she deems your beloved horse "trash"? Are all those show ring champions "trash" when they break down?
They probably end up on the "in loving memory page" at the same time they're on her dinner plate.
I think the hardest thing about that post is her referring to living animals as "trash."
Wow... and she stands an APHA stud. Sounds like she needs to be front and center for a Very Public Flogging.
Wow... and she stands an APHA stud. Sounds like she needs to be front and center for a Very Public Flogging.
"The sad part is how bitter she sounds"
I think buying and selling horses can make anyone pretty bitter.
Time for a different job!
ARRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!!2x4yes
"I think buying and selling horses can make anyone pretty bitter."
You know... it's true.
I've only dabbled and it's enough to make me want to strangle people sometimes.
-Kelly
I agree, CCC, the pet food comment she made doesn't make any sense.
Geeze Loueeze! What a witch!!!
Anybody know where she keeps her flying monkeys? Talk about going to the darkside. WOW. I pity any animal in her care.
Why do so many of the stupid ignorant and outright mean folks wright in all caps? This woman is unreal in her bitterness.
Wow, this is a well known owner/breeder of paint horses who I know of from the show circut. Bug Zapper was on our list of possible stallions...she will not get any of our money EVER after seeing this. I will make sure this post gets linked to the paint forums I look on, none of the people I show with support this attitude. Horses are not disposable, what an asshole.
To BuffyB:
I was hoping someone would know this crud and spread the word.
Thanks...let us know what kind of responses you get.
Go Buffy Go!!!
Buffy B- any way of finding out if she is a member of the APHA? Someone there might be interested if membership requires a code of ethics as my dog associations do.
This is her standard "letter" the exact same shit is posted on the New England Equine Rescue website, she must have written the same "letter" to them too or it is just something she simply copies and pastes to everyone.
http://www.newenglandequinerescues.com/badnewsbadpeople.htm
Tracey's comment about pet food does have some basis in truth--it is my understanding that the recalled dried dog and cat foods several years ago contained wheat gluten from China that had its protein content increased through the addition of melamine (sp) which caused cancer and kidney issues in pets. Melamine has also been traced to the deaths of children who drank powdered milk containing it.
That same melamine-laced gluten is found in packages of dried pasta. I am an avid label reader now, not just for fat grams and calories but for "country of origin."
My equine chiropractor is a veterinarian, and her advice: If you eat a balanced diet, fix a plate for your dog. Just be careful of the sugar.
I lost my three big dogs to cancer, all before the age of 10, and all within an 18-month period of time. I did not feed recalled food brands, and I spent a lot of money buying "good" food, often from the veterinarian (none of that "40 pound bag of kibble for $8" stuff from the feedstore). However, I'm not sure where all the components of the dried food came from. I do not feed the dried chicken skins (that my current dog just LOVES) because all the brands I've seen are labeled "product of China."
However, I do not agree with Tracey's horse-dealing philosophy, that it's 30-days or it's going to the killer.
Equine Bodyworker, can't wait for part two of the rescue story! I used to live near Oakdale and I know very well the farms along the 205.
lynndeepoo I have to say only one thing in regards to your comment about people being to lazy to go out and get food stamps or free food from some church. There are people out there [like me for example] that are to proud to accept money or help for diffrent reasons. I rarley ask for help, but there are times when I break down and have no choice but to accept. By the way, on the food stamps issue, some places have standards. Like where I live, I have no job, no way of making any income until a doctor can finally get off his tucus and prescribe me something other than celebrex, and have to live in an old tralier on a friends property. But yet I can get no help. I have been selling off everything I can in order to afford going to diffrent doctors hopeing one of them will listen to me, stop prescribing freaking addictive pain pills that I cant hardly take and of course celebrex. So no alot of times it is not laziness but pride, and pride can be a bad thing. I learned my pride well from both my parents.
and with this lady, she needs to get something else correct to, alot of leather products from what I used to know always came from cow. Not horse. And she wants to talk about feeding fillers to pets. HAHAHAHA I am sorry but I just got done reading a book that has put me off alot of meat altogether. Most of the feed fed to our cattle, chickens, goats, etc COME from dead animals. Go figure! Heck you know where alot of the lean meat comes from? huh youll never guess. Old, sickly dairy cows that can no longer produce the milk they need to sustain the farmer. Yes true fact. I can go on and on but trust me by the time I finish yall will never want to eat even veggies again!
CG
Would slaughter be so bad if it was back in the states, regulated and humane?
Not trying to argue, just curious.
Is her caps lock key broken? Her entire website is in uppercase. I wonder if she intends to add the horses she has sent to the kill buyer to the "In Loving Memory" page on her website.
Can't help but notice that there is no mention of thoroughbreds for sale on her site.
So I wonder if the horse on her "in memory of" page was canned?
So much for consistancy.
Why does karma take so long to get to people?
Bitch Slap tour?
Lali, you're right, I think, but we can't even regulate cow/pig/chicken production in any humane or civilized fashion.
This "trainer" is a poophead. Sadly, a lot of professional horsepeople aren't beneficiaries of liberal arts education, which to me means learning how to form and possibly resolve meaningful arguments about everything you THINK.
Horse Killer Lady, DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK. Because you really have a foggy, shaggy thought process.
And that sucks.
I kind of died a little on the inside reading that...
kestrel -
I assure you that the Wicked Witch of the West and East were far nicer people than that woman. Not that my icon has anything to do with that reasoning. :P
Fugly -
I searched all over the net for the Ramona Sentinel article about how you should train your horses so they stand a better chance at life...I cant help but feel that that article was written under your influence, even if the columnist doesnt read your blog, someone she knows DOES.
I'll type it all out for you later if I still cant find it online.
I don't have words to describe this woman. And I don't think I've seen anyone rejoice in subhuman blindness and cruelty the way she does.
Stay classy, Tracy. *eyeroll*
CCC hit it on the head about the ignorant pet food comment.
We still had slaughter houses in the U.S. when we had the melamine incident.
Plus,I do not know of a major brand of pet food that uses horse meat.
I think the average pet owner does NOT want to feed their pet horse meat.
Huge yuck factor. Plus, would I have to worry about the rampant use of Ivermectin on horses and that possibly being injested by my Collie?
CharlesCityCat said...
This person sends a cold chill up my spine. Very creepy.
==================
Mine too CCC. I don't like the kill buyers because of what they represent, but they are who they are, no excuses. This lady has an "In Loving Memory" page at the same time she's shipping a horse to auction because it kicked her?? She rehabs TBs but can't fix a kicking problem? Bullshit if she rehabs ANYTHING. She sells horses that are already okay and just dumps any that need any kind of rehabbing.
I can't even put to words how much this lady creeps me out. She is the worst kind. Loving and caring out of one side of her mouth and heartless out the other side. Cathy posts an awful lot of terrible people on this blog, but this lady really got to me.
She has to be an APHA member since her stallion is enrolled in the Breeders Trust and she participates in all of the futurities. I don't know if APHA has a code of ethics that would extend to this or not, I've honestly never run across anyone with quite this kind of ethics within the club. I'll try to do a little research today! I mean when I'm not busy "working" ha ha.
the apparent lack of love for equus this cretin exhibits is shocking, especially given the fact that her website exhibits an advanced level of show-horses and disciplines. her very disturbing comment of calling horses 'trash' indicates her deep-seated distain for all things equine. she should be ashamed of herself. my only thought is that her karma may include being treated the same when she is old. like what the old saw sings: what goes around, comes around.
Yay Buffy!
Chevygirl -
You're totally right about where most of the beef we eat comes from.
Unless specificed, 100% of all beef is dairy cow beef.
The dairies near me are pretty good with their animals. Clean pens (as clean as they can be, considering the quantity of animals), animals are of good weight, they have lots of room, fresh food and water, no sores or wounds.
And best of all, they put the pregnant cows up front so that people can watch births and calves running around (you can always tell when a baby is being born, cars line the side of the road).
TBDancer:
I found that person's analogy about commercial dog food now and how it was when horse meat was used to be ignorant.
Horsemeat hasn't been used for a long time in most commercial pet food and it has been safe until this recent incident with the gluten from China (who has a terrible history of manufacturing products using unsafe materials.)
I hardly think that the problem with the gluten is adequate reason to bring horse slaughter back. And I also don't find a correlation between banning slaughter and the deaths of so many pets.
Her analogies are very childish.
stonetown said...
Oh. My. God.
I hope this blog entry has serious repercussions for her farm. Can you imagine being a client of someone who sends the "trash" to the killers?? What happens if she deems your beloved horse "trash"? Are all those show ring champions "trash" when they break down?
----------
Stonetown,
I have to share a story with you and others who have not read it from me before.
Back in the early 1990's I would go directly to the Killer Buyers "farm" in Chino, CA.
His name was Leonard Grenier.
You would drive up to his ranch, and immediately as you entered-on the right was the pen of slaughter horses, complete with some separation pens, and of course the loading chute.
Leonard had a contract to ship fourty horses a week to Texas from Southern California.
Ok so far, not shocking.
Now if you drove up another 200 or so feet you came to THE SHOW BARN.
Yes you read that right. He had a lovely show barn, had a resident trainer, and boarders. Besides his kill horses, he bought expensive Quarter Horses.
Every person that kept a horse there or went to see the trainer etc had to drive by the kill pen.
You could not drive by and NOT know what those horses were there for.
Oh yes-since pick up day for the drive to the sluaghter house was Tuesday, Leonard would rent out horses for the Charro rodeo for the weekend. Lots of wounded horses to go with the sick ones.
Now, at the very top of his property was where he had his pens of horses he hoped to sell to rescuers and others. We knew if a horse was "up top" it had a little bit of time. But he never kept one up top too long.
Leonard also had his very own penicilin resistant STRANGLES.
Imagine boarding your horse there? Strangles was rampant and ever present.
I do not hold any hope that this revelation of who this woman really is will do any harm for her business.
djl ivermectin is used in cattle to ;) in fact it is used in alot of livestock. I am not worried so much about the dewormers used as I am in the fact of how much steriods/antibiotics did they recieve. I read every label and to tell the truth my vet is trying to get me on a raw diet for my animals, only thing is is affording that type of diet. I will see if I can reall the lastest books I have read on our society and livestock, hate to post the titles because I do not want ot be responsible for a nationwide anorexia epidemic but hey. Great great reading!
Chevygirl-
Most of the feed fed to our cattle, chickens, goats, etc COME from dead animals.
This simply isn't true. That USED to happen (what is the copyright date of your book?) but due to the current risk of prion diseases (Mad Cow, Scrapie, etc) blood and bone meal are no longer fed to livestock animals used for production purposes.
equus said: my only thought is that her karma may include being treated the same when she is old. like what the old saw sings: what goes around, comes around.
============
From your lips to God's ears equus. I'm a firm believer in karma. May take awhile, you can't rush it, but it'll bite you in the ass eventually. Maybe, after this blog entry, a little bit of karma will visit her door.
I doubt APHA's code of ethics will be much help here, but spreading the word WILL help. If she associates with professionals involved with breeding/showing and they are aware of her practices and attitude maybe some of them will want to distance themselves from her.
I'm still reeling. How many horses did she send to slaughter, knowingly? She takes them in, knowing that she'll dump them if they have any kind of issue? It's just too evil for words.
Im wondering if anyone spent more than a few seconds on her site to notice that under her contact us info she has a link for horsehauler.net?
AURGH I wish I had the guts to send her some hate mail
Raw diet? Wow. Get a new vet. That's a great way to make your dog very sick. Why don't we feed humans raw meat? Because it could make you sick. Your dog can get E. coli and salmonella too, you know.
If I ever thought about owning horses again - which I don't... or at least not often - Her's is the type of person I'd avoid.
Actually this type of person is also the kind I'd avoid in buying any animal from. Dog, cat, ferret, cockatoo, cow, brontesaurus, unicorn, dragon, you name it... I don't like buying animals from people like this. Animals are not trash... they aren't trash when they are out in the barn, on our plate, in another animal's jaws, or decomposing on the ground.
I hate it when people think they are.
djl,
You're right. Business as usual for her....
Sooooo many people don't know or CARE about the truth of horse slaughter. Look how many really nice horses are dumped by affluent people all the time, just because they don't want 'em anymore.
I disagree with her very much but I think that most older people in most rural areas would agree with her. I know that many of the "horse" people I know think her way.
I raise a lot of livestock that become food but not my horses which is why I have 7 "free" horses here!
SassyBrunette said...
Raw diet? Wow. Get a new vet. That's a great way to make your dog very sick. Why don't we feed humans raw meat? Because it could make you sick. Your dog can get E. coli and salmonella too, you know
-------
I find the RAW diet pretty gross,
BUT, I know several people that feed it, and HAVE fed it for a very very long time.
The one lady I know who has fed it forever -I have to say-consistantly has dogs that live way longer then the breed lifespan-and stay quite spry too.
That being said..too gross for me, but since the poisoned pet food, I do feed my dogs cooked chicken every night for dinner, and commercial dog food in the morning.
There is a guy just like that on the horse grooming supplies forum named 'Country'. Identical thought processes.
If they want to be in the 'livestock' business - they should buy cattle or sheep.
Horses are not and never will be categorized as 'livestock' because of the intelligence quotient.
It seems to me that these are people who hate horses so much that they actually go into the 'business' in order to play out some kind of 'God revenge' psychology. As in: "I'll decide if you live or die today."
It's a really sick sort of pathology that is perfectly exemplified in her insistence on using caps.
sassybrunette, I have been doing reading on raw diets for animals and really there bodies can handle it better than ours because that is how they were created. We have just decided to fill them with "filler" foods. In fact I trust this vet very much. After 5 vets diagnosed my old cat with a tumor in her chest cavity, I finally took her to this vet. He actually TOOK x rays and did other diagnostic tests. Come to find out she in fact did not have a tumor but was in the last stages of heart failure at the ripe old age of 15. She was my grandfathers cat and to tell you the truth, she would never touch any brand of cat food so my grandfather gave her what she wanted. As she was in the last stages of heart failure I was to give her a diet with no or little sodium, and one of those was raw chicken. I saw this cats x rays and other tests, in fact I was happy he listend to me unlike the other ones. Dont tell me its a tumor with nothing to show for it ;) And with feeding livestock dead animals yes it does still happen. I am looking for those books right now but the copyright on it is 2006. And by a very good author who wrote another one about the dairy industry. You dont even want to get me started on what milk truly is ;)
And then she runs a professional QH breeding facility? I'm not using her! How do I know if the foal with be "trash" that she gets rid of and tells me it's been aborted? (Unlikely situation, but still) No horse is "trash" just like no person is total "trash" (some are just about though, as we have seen) and horses haven't been used as livestock for several hundred years now, they've been used as methods of transportation and sport. Yes they were sold to meat markets once they were done with sometimes, but they had NOTHING ELSE TO DO WITH THEM! Nowadays, they do! They have horse rescues, retirement homes, euthanasia! Horse meat is a delicacy now! Not a necessity!
What a female canine.
Happy New Year, anyway!!
OK, they are current members of APHA but from what I can see the "code of ethics" basically sucks. It applies to what you do at shows, equipment ect. but not to professional ethics in how you operate you horse business.
I agree with Secondwind, spreading the word will make a difference, not a huge one but if it deprives them of a sale, a breeding or a contact in the show world, then at least that's something. As I said, they will never get any money from me now and we really liked that stallion's offspring. I won't even consider doing business with them in any capacity.
SassyBrunette -
There are dog and cat food brands that are raw meat. It's very pricey as I understand. Also I'm under the impression that you dont cook it. It is meant to be eaten raw.
And, for the record, humans DO eat raw meat. Fish, beef, eggs...I could go on, but it maybe gross people out.
So the little kid friendly, kind pony with the stifle problem she Craiglisted to find a home for before her next auction run just turned into trash because she didn't want to feed it anymore? I wonder what Tracey's use/value to family and humanity in general is-
RIP little paint pony you deserved better and I hope somebody took you far far away.
HA HA HA HA
here's her latest post for a pony named buddy:
BUDDY WAS BORN IN MAY 2008. HE WILL MATURE TO APPROX. 14 HANDS. HE CAN BE REGISTERED AS A PINTO PONY. I AM NO LONGER BREEDING CHINCOTEAGUE PONIES, DUE TO MY EXTREMELY BUSY SCHEDULE WITH MY APHA STALLION. THIS WILL BE THE LAST CHINCOTEAGUE FOAL FROM CRANBERRY RUN FARM. I HAVE ALREADY SOLD OFF MY BROODMARES AND STUD. BUDDY IS PRICED FOR QUICK SALE, THE PRICE IS NOT A TYPO. THE AVERAGE PRICED CHINOTEAGUE FOAL SELL FOR OVER $2000, AT THE ANNUAL PONY SWIM. THEY HAVE GONE FOR OVER 10,000 IN PREVIOUS YEARS. I HAVE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION OUR BAD ECONOMY AND MY LIMITED TIME. HE WILL MAKE A GREAT ALL AROUND PONY AND IS VERY KID FRIENDLY. SERIOUS ADULT INQUIRIES ONLY!!! ALL INQUIRES MUST HAVE A FIRST AND LAST NAME, DAY AND EVENING CONTACT PHONE NUMBERS. I DO NOT RESPOND TO EMAILS MISSING THIS INFORMATION. ANY EMAIL THAT APPREARS TO BE FRAUD OR ASKS FOR UNREALISTIC INFORMATION ( IE: EMAILS ASKING IF HE IS BROKE TO RIDE AS A WEANLING ) WILL BE REPORTED AS FRAUD TO DREAMHORSE. HE IS HALTER BROKE AND LEADS. FEEL FREE TO CALL MY CELL 609 217 1812 , FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. NOTE: I DO NOT ACCEPT CALLS FROM BLOCKED PHONE NUMBERS.
I love that last part- does not accept calls from blocked phone numbers....
All I can say is that the pony that kicked her....had the right idea....perhaps he was trying to lead a mutiny. Too bad the other horses didn't catch on. I can't believe someone who is trying to make a living/breeding/showing/etc would be so stupid as to speak those words out loud even if they did believe them. Not a good strategic business move if you ask me.
Well treating horses as livestock is not necessarily a bad thing, but people forget the "live" part! They are not a thing, they are a "live" animal. SHEESH!
During our snow it is what kept me going outside when I had a viral chest cold and fever to take care of my animals. They are counting on me, whether I "feel" like it or not, they need food, water, shelter, etc.
Not sure how to get it through people's head when it comes to cats, dogs, horses or any pet that these are "living" animals and not a piece of your furniture that you discard when the finish wears off!!
I believe many people will just NEVER get it....(sigh)........
Back in the early 1990's I would go directly to the Killer Buyers "farm" in Chino, CA.
His name was Leonard Grenier.
============
Does anyone know, are there still any farms around like this?
Sounds like Ms. Tracy operates much like this, but more secretively. Openly designated as kill pens in view, horses sorted according to where they will go, etc., would be a little too blantent these days...but she's doing the same thing, just in a different way. Maybe I'm just naive because I wonder if a farm like Leonards would fly here in my area. I'd like to think not, but...
blantent=blatant Sorry
what a bitch! i don't know how you can look at your horse as trash and knowingly send them to slaughter
"Horses are not and never will be categorized as 'livestock' because of the intelligence quotient"
Sorry, but I call BS.
Horses are categorized as livestock because of the type of animals they are. First, they're still working animals in many places, and second, their care requirements (housing, feed, etc) are the same as other livestock. And, though it's unpalatable to many, they are still used for their meat (even if not slaughter, they are rendered into usable products).
Also, as far as intelligence, as someone who has been around MANY farm animals, I don't think horses are any smarter than cattle or sheep. We THINK they are, because we take the time to get to know them. Other livestock animals are just as easy to train, work with, and develop bonds with. And as far as IQ goes, it's been shown that pigs are one of the smartest animals in the animal kingdom, definitely more so than horses. But most of us eat bacon without a second thought.
Classifying horses as pets, rather than livestock, has some pretty dangerous consequences- many boarding farms and horse operations are currently considered agricultural properties and taxed on that rate (not everywhere but most places). Horses being seen legally as "non livestock" animals means many farms might lose that status- so that owners who board would see an increase in the cost of care as farm owners pass down the financial burden.
In some places, horses are not seen as livestock and owners are actually taxed on a per-horse basis (one town in CT I think assesses any horse as a "$10,000" value and taxes you on that, no matter what). Here in MD, they recently tried to have horses considered a "luxury item" so that the state could tax all associated services. With horse ownership so expensive already, I don't think we want to go further down that road.
So yes, to me they are livestock. Fun livestock, but livestock. We buy and sell and trade them as a commodity. And as someone who has raised calves and been around many farm animals, the idea that horses are inherently "better" than other animals makes me really annoyed.
The only difference between a horse and a cow is the emotional value WE give them.
Broadwaypony-
Did you know that you can get toxoplasmosis from eating raw pork? They do it in France. Do you want toxo? Just because people do it doesn't mean it is right or safe. I really don't think I can help you or Chevygirl. Ignorance is bliss.
Ok, Im from Jersey, about 1/2 hour or so away from Chatsworth, where this idiot is located and they are in the "pines" and since they are located in Chatsworth and with that additude they are most likely Pineys. If you dont know what a Piney is think "Deliverance" I kid you not. That is one of those places you just dont go to unless you live there! So Im not suprised but deeply sickened.Especially when we have thoroughbred rescues all around here!
Intelligence can't even be defined consistently in the psychological sense, let alone acurately tested in non-speaking (aka non-human species).
http://buffalo.craigslist.org/grd/975065977.html
I love this - Should have called a vet when it first happened, he's been home 3 weeks and we still haven't called a vet. So, this poor guy has been suffering since the summer when he injured himself. Now, she wants to know if there's a boot that will keep the hoof from flopping. Dear Lord!
I went to her web page. Among the pretty show photos, no where does she mention her "dirty little secret" revealing how she pays for her show expenses. Right under her stallion ad, she should put an additional sentence - "In case your foal by my stallion is trashy, let me know and I'll take him to New Holland for you, for a small fee."
And, if she thinks there are too many horses and "people are going to bed hungrey" WHY is she wanting you to breed to her stallion? What isn't she suggesting that you donate that stud fee to feed the hungry? Oh no, she needs that money so she can show and get those all important little peices of silk ribbon to show her friends. Oh come on now lady, get real.
OMG!
What an f'g bitch!
Absolutely no heart. Just a pocketbook.
I sure wish we can send our human trash to New Holland. Don't think the mink farm, would be able to tell the difference in the meat? Well maybe, her's would be very bitter tasting!
Send her to Palin's land. Maybe Palin can practice her aerial hunting on her! LOL
You know, just from that ad for Buddy? you can glean all of the info you need about this woman. She talks down to prospective buyers, just disrespectful from the get- go, and it's scary, she is not too far away from us. When I read "Cranberry" anything, I think close proximity! What an honor, huh? "Queen Asshat of 2008 !" I can only imagine her reaction...to be a fly on the wall, huh?
I disagree 100% about categorizing horses with cows, sheep, pigs, etc.
In the US, horses have rarely been RAISED as a food product. They have been working service animals and companions. In our history, their contibution to mankind has been far above the contributions of other species.
No matter what anyone else says, they are different, always have been and always will be.
SassyBrunette,
Rather than condemn the raw diet for dogs and cats, do a bit of research -- there are tons of pages out there that give great info. This one might be a good place to start:
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/
Me, I've been feeding raw for roughly eleven years years now. I had a puppy that could not keep any sort of weight or condition on with kibbled food, no matter what type we tried. Feeding raw was something "new" at that time, but I figured I had nothing to lose -- my dog was going to be dead if I didn't do anything. So I read, researched, and talked with open-minded vets and started feeding raw.
That dog is going on his 13th year now and is fit and healthy. My other dog, who ate raw for ten years, passed away recently at 17 years of age. And my newest dog, at almost two, was raw-fed from the day I brought her home at eight weeks of age.
None of 'em have had complications of any sort from their diet, and in fact, all of their vets (we moved a few times) have told me to continue feeding them and doing whatever it is I'm doing, because they were some of the healthiest animals they have seen.
Good 'nuff for me.
This woman makes me sick to my stomach. She will get what is coming to her. What trash. I hope she gets to read this and all comments.
I recommend a raw/natural diet for most dogs and cats. I've been feedign this way for seven years.
"You're totally right about where most of the beef we eat comes from.
Unless specificed, 100% of all beef is dairy cow beef."
OT, but: I find this extremely hard to believe, given the fact that there are many, many times more beef cattle in the US than dairy cattle. There are feedlots that carry over 100,000 beef cattle at a time, with constant turnover, ranches raising all these beef calves, etc. etc.
There simply aren't enough dairy cattle to produce enough meat for America. :)
In certain parts of the country, there may be a higher percentage of dairy beef in the store, but not all of the US is dairy country, and older cattle are primarily used for ground beef -- and animal food.
I'm sure I'm going to be the most hated (or second most hated) person in the world, but I don't find a problem with what she she has said, or what she is doing.
Now before you all jump all over me, take a breath and actually look at what she is saying from a different point of view.
Most of the people on this board keep horses as pets, she is a business woman and a livestock breeder. This does not mean she does not take as good if not better care of her livestock as you do. But she also has a financial bottom line to deal with. She is not a rescue, nor is she claiming to be. Her job is to take animals and see if they can be re-trained into a new life quickly. This is not her past-time, its a job. She is a horse trainer, most real horse trainers are paid to take a horse and teach it something in a reasonable amount of time for its owner. If its unable to learn that specific skill within that period of time, its up to the trainer and the owner to decide if its a worthwile goal to pursue or not. For hobbyists like you and me, it might mean revamping our goals, trying a different method, trying for a longer period of time etc, for these owners/trainer they have a system in place to deal with which ones will work out and which ones won't. She has every right to refuse to keep any horse which could threaten her physical well-being and therefore her livelihood.
Yes she is for horse slaughter, you will find most professional trainers do support it, they see first hand many of the horses who just cannot be saved. Horse owners/trainers who also raise cattle are also more likely to support slaughter as an option as they are very familiar with the real process that's invloved and are not swayed by emotional arguments.
To say she is for torturing animals and is unethical or whatever, just because you don't agree with her stand on slaughter is not fair. I've read and re-read her her post back and I find nothing rude about it, other than the caps. Yes she's probably not an overly emotional person, it sounds like she was raised a farm girl where animals had a purpose, to provide work and food first, companionship second. This is not uncommon for anyone raised on a farm over the age of 45. They view things very practical, its not the way we see things.
Anyways, I'm sure most of you will be quick to tell me how wrong I am. That's fine. Its easy to say how you would do things in the hypothetical, but when its your livelihood on the line your expectations change.
Kelly said- "Also, as far as intelligence, as someone who has been around MANY farm animals, I don't think horses are any smarter than cattle or sheep."
Sorry Kelly- I call BS to that. We have a small time sheep breeding operation, 1 ram, 6 ewes. One ewe and the ram have been around for several years and we have had the chance to get to know them well and they us. Their logical thought processes are just not on the same level as ANY of my horses.
snaffles:
There are alot of horse professionals who read and post on this blog, it is their livelihood as well, however, none of them sound like that.
There's a special place in hell reserved just for her.
Oh and Queen Asshat is just plain scary- sure her attitude is not necessarily unique but I think the mortifying issue is blasting that kind of response to a gentle letter from another horse person.
This is one person who definitely deserves to be outed here.
What a jackass! I have stronger words, but will not use them, on the chance I can't stop...
Now we have to get the word out about her... MORE!
Her letter sounds like a person who has been in the trenches for too long and is now completely shell-shocked. I feel kinda sorry for her.
Not to be devils advocate, but some of the points she brings up about exporting whole goods (live horses) and importing processed goods (leather), and supplementing our petfood with imported, possibly tainted wheat gluten, doesn't make sense to me either.
But I believe that there will never, ever be humane horse slaughter here in the states because of the cultural emotional attachment to horses. There, I said it.
CCC -
Unfortunately I see her point about dog food. When dogs were fed meat, bones and scraps, they didn't have all the food allergies, and other issues they have now. They also were not at risk of being poisoned by overseas products used in their food.
However, this is the ONLY thing I agree with, and nothing else.
Also, you do not have to use horsemeat, any meat will do. I prefer to feed chicken myself.
AlphaMare -
Next time you go to a chain grocery store, ask the butcher where the meat comes from.
Like I said, unless it says otherwise, I promise you it's dairy meat.
Private butchers and specialty stores maybe be different but Vons, Albertson's, Stater Bros. and Orchard's all carry dairy beef.
Most of the beef we grow in the states is exported as well.
I only know this because I took agriculture in school.
SassyBrunette -
I eat sashimi, I eat raw cookie dough, I eat pizza left out from the night before.
I ate spinach when everyone was freaking out about e.coli. I went to Japan when SARS was an 'epidemic' /eyeroll.
I have yet to contract any sickness or disease and believe me if you purchase your meat from a reliable FRESH source then you have no worries.
I really believe it's mostly hype. Scare tactics and what-not.
Kelly, good point about the agricultural zoning & property taxes. I'm in MD too (Mont. Co.). Even w/ag zoning it's gotten expensive here. Board rates are high (too high for me to afford a horse right now) and I know a lot of folks who have relocated to other counties or states w/more flexible zoning & lower taxes. If horses weren't classified as livestock, I have no doubt we'd see even fewer horse operations in the county.
that is disgusting. and a quick look at the website and it could EASILY be mistaken for a good breeder. disgusting.
Raw/BARF diets have their positives, but they also have their downfalls. In my opinion these diets are best left in the hands of the very practiced. Too many times a vet gives owners the perfect recipe for raw diets, only to have the owners subtly alter the recipe and ruin the food (diet drift). The balance nutrients is delicate and there are limiting factors. If there is too much/too little of something it renders something else unusable by the body.
Also, I can't tell you how many times people claim to find the perfect recipe online. When will people realize that anyone can post anything online. Anyone can claim to be anyone online. Take it to your VET and get it checked! Why would you trust someone you don't even know when you have someone you KNOW is educated just down the road?
Don't even get me started on the difficulties of these diets with cats! Two words for you guys OBLIGATE CARNIVORES! Their list of essential amino acids and vitamins is insane!
You know what???? I KNOW these people!!!
Not sure how (it hasn't connected in my brain yet) but I know them.
Being in NJ, I am pretty close to their farm. I bet I have seen them at Camelot Auction. I go most Wednesdays to check for StBs. Now I wonder...
Oh, and be sure the word will be spreading!
Broadway Pony - where do you get your stats that almost all beef in the US comes from Dairy Cattle? The US slaughters 2,500,000+ head of cattle per year. Maybe 15% of that comes from dairy cattle, and that would primarily be from the east or west coast.
Dairy beef is generally of poorer quality, cows are generally used for pet foods, and the steers/heifers typically grade much lower than their beef-bred counterparts. Most is used for ground/dried beef.
Maybe if she would have just said what she was thinking it would have gone differently. Specifically... "leave your busy body nose out of my business."
I know I don't always agree with most of the people on this site although I do agree with a lot of it. In this case, I didn't see that much wrong with the letter and thought she was relatively polite considering the "advice" given was by a volunteer was condecending and unsolicited.
I'm so glad this woman has been outed. The slaughter issue is so complicated, I'm not sure how to feel about it, but this woman is horrible.
There are two sides to this issue and I don't quite know what's best:
http://www.myhorse.com/health/preventative/horse_slaughter_editorial.aspx?ht=#top
Sorry, but there are a ton of people who make their living in the horse industry and aren't pro-slaughter. I'm far from a sunshine-and-butterflies "all horses are beautiful" type - you all know that. What Tracy calls trash, I might call a fugly. The difference between Tracy and myself is that, while I don't think the fuglies should reproduce, if they are already here, I absolutely believe every one deserves a good home OR a humane euthanasia. I don't think the rankest horse deserves the slaughter process.
>>I think the hardest thing about that post is her referring to living animals as "trash."<<
Me too. I just found that appalling. And the vengeance displayed toward the pony "he kicked his last person when he kicked me" - COME ON, LADY! The pony did not sit there thinking "ha, I'm going to kick Tracy today just to disrespect her." Unfortunately Tracy DID think "you kicked me, so I'm going to ship you to slaughter."
The whole thought process there is so, so, so flawed and disturbing and evil.
Sassy -
The raw diet is not new, not is it dangerous for dogs. Those things are dangerous for people, but dogs are NOT people.
Do you think wild canids catch and kill something, then knock on the nearest door to have it cooked up for them?
Not so much.
Even though the domestic dog is a far cry from the wild wolves and other canids that they stem from, their digestive system is much the same.
Evolution, in it's natural state, takes centuries to change things. We have artificially evolved the dog, by breeding for specific traits. This will chance the appearance of the animal, but not the most basic of the inner workings.
The tiniest Chihuahua, the largest Mastiff, the fuzziest Frou-Frou, all have the digestive tract of their natural ancestors, the wolf.
While raw meat is not harmful (niether are raw bones, it's the cooked ones you need to watch for) you still have to use human grade products, and quality stuff. Also make sure it is fresh.
Otherwise, raw is not a problem for dogs OR cats.
hmm, charlie... maybe I'll give you sheep.
But I won't back down on pigs and cattle. :)
I just don't think horses are inherently more "worthy" than other animals of special treatment. Our opinion of them, or the value WE give them, doesn't change what they are.
The fact that WE don't "like" cows as much or spend more time with them doesn't mean cows don't feel pain and fear.
I'm not saying horse slaughter is humane- I think by virtue of it being so spread out that it is less humane (the transport, etc). But I always bristle at this idea that horses are magical or special when the reality is the main difference is their build (they're fast, so they've been useful throughout history) and our emotional attachment.
Our ideas/definitions of what an animal is doesn't change the actual reality of what it is.
I just don't think it's OK to condone something for one animal and say it's torture to another based solely on how we feel about that kind of animal.
Is it just me or is the "horses as objects" feeling toward horses more prevalent in the AQHA/APHA world than anywhere else?
Considering both organizations are pro-slaughter and a huge percentage of the horses shipped are AQHA/APHA (papered even!!) it isn't really shocking. Just a thought on that. And one more reason why I will never purchase a AQHA/APHA horse.
I will never support slaughter but I would support a place where you could drop off your horse and it was immediately euthanized, whether via injection or bullet to the head. And I don't care what is done with the carcass. My whole body is signed over for use after I die, too. Who cares?
I will NEVER support:
1) double decker transport
2) any kind of assembly line type slaughter where the horses go into a chute and are herded toward their fate
3) any system in which the owner is paid for a horse who is going to die. It encourages irresponsible breeding and irresponsible ownership.
Snaffles, I know people in this business who do not have that attitude. I personally won't do business with anyone like this woman. Right now, with the economy being so bad, I have a choice, as do plenty of consumers out there. I don't doubt that plenty of other people share her views, but I don't have to give them my money.
debandfred -
How true! I just see a "Piney and Proud" bumper sticker and want to hit them! But I know they have no insurance...
Horses, and other animals, can tell if a person (trainer) does not care about them. I can only surmise most of these horses are aware of her animosity and react accordingly.
BuckdOff - That's exactly it. People have a choice and should know who they are giving their money to.
It's like with cosmetics. I only buy cruelty-free. I vote with my dollars about how I would like cosmetics to be produced. Simple.
About horses as dog food-during WWII most dogfoods had horsemeat and butchers sold fresh horsemeat for dogs. This wa s because meat from "human food" animals was rationed. After the war dog food has been marketed with "human food" ingredient because some people think it;'s better that way, and I don't think any American pet foods include horse any more(though I could be wrong).
Snaffles:)
Your post is indeed the truth, as spoken by many agricultural people who make their living exclusively from animals. It doesn't make it any less disgusting for those of us that actually do care about what happens to the animals we eat, like me. I have no problem with humane slaughter. It does not happen in horses. Not yet, not in my country, which just so happens to be yours as well. Perhaps, if there was more awareness, this could change. With your casual acceptance of it, it will not.
The attitude, yeah, so what, it's just an animal, is the normal.
You are so normal.
Since you despise me anyway, please take this in the spirit intended.
Happy New Year.
broadway pony, yes, a little part of me just died, as well. A part of me dies, with every heartless story I read. I'm running out of parts.
I have finally published my very own fictional happy ending. I hope those who have read me, enjoy it.
I hold it very close to my heart.
Thanks to Fugs, and to all the readers of this Fugly blog.
To Horses. God help them all. Even, especially, the "trash".
"I don't think the fuglies should reproduce, if they are already here, I absolutely believe every one deserves a good home OR a humane euthanasia."
I completely agree. I'd rather have a horse in a good home, or at least have humane euthanasia rather than being neglected and slowly starved to death by people who would call them "trash"
Well said Kelly - Horse are, and need to remain livestock - The consequences of changing their status, would completely and totally decimate an already failing industry. Look beyond the, I have a horse or two, but to the industry as a whole, without the benefits of being an agricultural business, horses and all of the industries that are associated with it, would be SOL.
Horses are currently covered under the horse protection act. All horses not just the gaited breeds.
Change their status to pet, and we now have to follow rules made for dogs and cats - licenses, mandatory vaccines etc. taxes on your farrier bill, your feed bill, your vet bill
The tax break of having your land as an A1, is huge – You could count on triple the board, if that status has to change.
In a natural disaster, horses are livestock and have benefits from the USDA – Loose them if they are pets.
BTW - The UnWanted Horse Coalition advertises on the APHA page, check lower right of their homepage.
Interesting....
www.apha.com
URAn4ssHat -
Cats are VERY difficult to maintain on raw diets. Again, essential amino acids and vitamins.
Dogs ARE different from wolves. Lifespan of wild dogs - not very long, especially compared to domestic dogs. Dogs CAN get sick from raw foods just like we can. Not only that, they shed the parasites and infect their owners! Feeding a BARF diet and not just raw the bones are dangerous for dogs. For their teeth and their digestive tracts.
Fugs you stated my sentiments exactly.
Even the rankest horse in the world does not deserve slaughter.
I have been witness to both a bullet to the head and to euthanasia by injection, either way is better than the torture and torment of the trip to slaughter.
UR:
I don't have a problem with that kind of a diet, I myself feed my own three dogs a mixture of commercial food and things like chicken, etc. I don't give it to them raw though. As a matter of fact, they get beef marrow bones on a regular basis and they love it.
I didn't like her analogy. It says because we are feeding our pets commercial food that has fillers in it and not horsemeat, we are killing our pets.
That is ridiculous. Yes, there was a problem, but not all pet foods were contaminated. The kind I use wasn't. There are good ones that are nutrionally balanced, just like horse feed.
Yes, there are alot of pets who have problems like you describe but at least some of those are a result of breeding issues.
GoLightly I have never said I depise you. You are the one who seems to think I'm somehow evil and mean. Admit it, you don't think ANY slaughter is humane - to say it doesn't exist in Canada is BS, I know it happenes at Bouvry.
To say that livestock producers don't care about their animals because they may eventually end up slaughter, no matter what the species is blindly ignorant thinking. It is in any producers best interest to make sure their animals are well-cared for and comfortable. It costs less financlially and results in a better product. Its less stressful on the animals and its actually less work and expense for the producers. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure or neglect.
Its interesting the more neglect and abuse cases that are found, no matter what species, typically happen on 'hobby' farms, acreages and by city folks. Very, very few livestock producers are found with these cases.
Despite what one of the other posters on this board feels, livestock producers do not have a God complex and raise and feed them merely to laugh and watch them die. That shows the warped pysche of the poster more-so than any producer I've ever met.
snaffles -
I got my info from my agriculture text book.
I wont say text books are wrong, I'm simply stating what I've been taught, based on what the text says.
I'd have to get a hold of one of those books to give you detail, but I do have my notes from class which state from the book:
"In the United States, dairy cattle are divided into seven major breeds. These are the: Holstein-Friesian, Red and White Holstein, Brown Swiss, Guernsey, Ayrshire, Jersey, Milking Shorthorn.
Many other breeds are used nearly exclusively for dairy, or for both dairy and beef purposes.
But! I do plan on actually researching now, because I'd rather not go around thinking it's all dairy meat if it's not (however, our local Stater Bros is, and will tell you, using dairy beef almost exclusively. Probably has to do with all the dairies in So. Cal.).
And on a further observation, maybe the text meant that So. Cal.'s beef is primarily dairy beef because of the dairy locations??
I'm not busy at work. Now I'm going to research.
Makes me so sad. I'm so happy we took Gravano once he was finished racing. Here's my blog on his progress:
Ottbgravano.blogspot.com
bhbulldogs said...
Fugs you stated my sentiments exactly.
Even the rankest horse in the world does not deserve slaughter.
I have been witness to both a bullet to the head and to euthanasia by injection, either way is better than the torture and torment of the trip to slaughter.
------------------------------
Exactly the TRIP to slaughter is the problem - the bullet or the captive bolt is NOT the problem.
So then would people be as upset by what Tracey wrote if she said that the ones that didn't work out, she took out back and shot.
Methinks most of the people on here would be equally as outraged.
Broadway - that would make sense in Cali and on the NE coast as well where their are large dairy populations. The majority of the beef cattle are raised in Colorado, Kansas, Nebraska, OK, TX. More area for cow-calf ranches, and easier acess to feedlots for finishing.
Kricket:
Where do you live?
I have 3 dogs, 4 cats and 4 horses.
I already pay tax on my horse feed just like I do on dog and cat food. It's called state/local sales tax.
Vet bills for both the pets and horses are not taxed, farrier bills are not taxed either. Vets and farriers provide a service, therefore no taxes are levied. Just like you don't pay taxes to your own doctor.
A property is designated A1 no matter what lives on it. It has to do with the area it is in, not what lives on it.
As far as I know, no one puts a tax on pets.
However, this applies to where I live, maybe it is different where you are.
snaffles -
I found some supporting data, but I feel now that those 'new' text books were using old information...
Dairy Beef Production
I have to be another one to defend the raw diet, for dogs anyway, I know nothing about cats. I have been feeding it for years and have yet to make myself, or my dog, sick. Even people who don't feed raw, think about it, hasn't your dog ever eaten some nasty old dead bird and been just fine? Their systems were meant to eat raw food.
I just don't believe that a healthy diet for an animal needs to be that complicated. Seriously. Can you imagine if we were all told that we are not smart enough to work out a healthy diet for our families, so we'd better eat this pre-packaged, processed food sold by your doctor, that someone has decided has the right vitamins and nutrients? Ridiculous. I feed myself using fresh, healthy food and common sense. I feed my dog the same way.
Has someone contacted the tracks who have a no slaughter policy, and given an alert on this person to them?
I get her point on a very basic level, but the callousness just doesn't go with a love of animals. I'm guessing she has no real love for them. I hated my computer job, that's why I no longer do it. Maybe she should try gardening...
Her website isn't very professional either...
Cyborg Suzy said, " she needs to learn critical thinking (like so many).
The difference between using horse meat (not necessarily a bad thing).
...and inhumane slaughter practices (bad)."
Ahhh - therein lies the problem. Since the US banned slaughter, we lost control of the methods. Bad move.
Snaffles is the only person here who has posted using common sense. Most of you fuglyites live in a world that is all sunshine and butterflies. You seem to forget that a lot of people consider horses a business and can't afford to keep an unuseable horse around. Why shouldn't they be allowed to sell it for whatever salvage value it can bring? Just because you feel an emotional attachment for your horses doesn't mean everybody else does. People like you have caused more cruelty to horses that the pro-slaughter folks. Horses are still being shipped to slaughter but now they are being shipped much longer distances which is much harder on the horse. The lucky ones from up north get to go to Canada which does have regulations on slaughter so they are dispatched in a humane manner. The southern horses are the most unlucky. They get to go to Mexico where they are hacked to death. Nice job, folks. Stopping slaughter will not stop people from breeding. Dog people have been promoting spay/neuter and responsible breeding for years but thousands of unwanted dogs are still killed each year. It won't be any different for horses. You people need to wake up from your sunshine and butterfly dreams and live in the real world.
Sassy Brunnette said, "I agree, CCC, the pet food comment she made doesn't make any sense."
I believe that was in reference to the number of pets that suffered liver damage and/or death from contaminated imported pet food a couple of years ago. I don't remember the brand.
OMG and WTF!!!As much as I hate going to New Holland I would absolutely go there on a day she is there to dispose of some TB trash that she got from some trainers she knows.Then I would happily beat the living shit out of her and give her the WTF is wrong with you "Come to Jesus" moment she so rightly deserves.What a human PIECE OF SHIT!!!(notice the ALL CAPS!)Then I will no doubt need to have someone post my bail for me as she will not be leaving without assistance or in an ambulance.
I'm sorry maybe I was brought up differently but I was always taught to have compassion while on the job (or while making a living). Like compassion for those who work for you, who you work for, and last but not least who you work with. I do not think this excludes animals. I've been raised around farmers who have compassion for their livestock. Sure, it may have been a cow that would be slaughtered by next month but that did not mean the farmer saw it as "trash" to dispose of. That cow served a purpose. I've been in the service industry for a long time and I have compassion for the people I serve. Many horse trainers have compassion for the horses they work with. They just don't view them as "trash" if it doesn't work out. I'm sorry Common Sense and Snaffles have seen it otherwise in the industry and that's sad.
Well if horses are livestock, why do I have to pay taxes on the hay I buy for them, but not for goats or sheep?
Lol "Like learning how to use lower case."
I laughed at that. Just had to mention.
And WOW, she's in the HORSE business? If SHE'S the judge of these horses, and she can't even cure a kick, I feel sad for our industry.
"Stopping slaughter will not stop people from breeding."
No it won't. But educating people will. I think the slaughter debate and the over-breeding debate are related but independent issues. We need a cultural shift in order to reduce over-breeding. Slaughter or not.
Dog people have been promoting spay/neuter and responsible breeding for years but thousands of unwanted dogs are still killed each year.
I don't know about where you live. Where I live the animal shelters have few to no dogs when I visit. If you want to adopt one they have to bring it up from the South. So around here I think it has changed for the better. Shelters still have lots of cats however.
For me the issue with the original post is not if a horse is a pet or a livestock, it is respecting it for what ever it is, to you. My husband's family are dairy farmers. Cows are livestock not pets. But I've never heard them express the negative sentiment in the original post.
BroadwayPony said, "Unless specificed, 100% of all beef is dairy cow beef."
I don't believe this is anywhere near correct. We lease pasture to a cattle raiser--beef cattle. Most of the ranches around here also raise beef cattle.
While Dairy Cattle may well be some portion of our beef, I sincerely doubt it is a very high percentage. Dairy cows are way too expensive to be a major beef source.
You may be thinking of Angus beef, which is a specific breed known for high quality and tender beef. There are many other breeds raised specifically for their meat that are not designated anything other than "beef." It may be graded differently, i.e., prime, choice, select. That is done at the slaughter house.
CommonSense -
Fulgy is against slaughter. She said it in a comment on this very post.
And until slaughter can be done humanely, I'll be against it too.
I dont condemn people for using livestock as a way of making ends meet. I just stand against doing it inhumanely.
If she were euthanizing the 'trash' instead of making a quick buck then she would probably be featured here more kindly.
I also find it funny Common Sense wrote "Most of you fuglyites live in a world that is all sunshine and butterflies." Who'd a thought we would be labeled as all "sunshine and butterflies"...most commentors on here tell it like it is.
I’m a firm believer of “Every Dog Has Their Day” & “Good Things Come to Those Who Wait.
Well Tracey & everyone like her, your days coming & we all know it. One day you will die & call me weird but I believe in life after death. For those who have given a good home & our heart to our animals…we will see them again & be happy once more. For those who F’ed it up for the animals, you will be the ones that come back in that type of life form.
So you treat the pony to a cruel death sentence cuz he kicked you & you didn’t bother to fix it? Your future spot has been reserved for you to come back in an equine form. You’ll be the one that the owners don’t take care of. You’ll be fed & watered only when they see fit by showing you off & doing the “I claim status” …uh yeah I have horse’s…. look at me!
They’ll get tired of you, you’ll get shipped to the local sale barn, and nobody will want you so you’ll go to the kill pen. Last second some little kids gonna win their mom & dad over & you’ll be claimed into another home. The kid will be a mean one who pops you in the mouth w/ the bit constantly, kicks the crap out of your sides “GO DARN PONY”. Then kid hates you, back to the sale you go, who knows how many times the process may repeat itself…god knows ponies seem to live thru almost anything.
Then one day you’ll find yourself on “THE TRAILER”, the end of the line. To be scared out of your wits, stressed beyond all you can take. But they don’t care if you don’t move they’ll beat you & run you over by the other horses behind you…you’ll move then.
So rest assure “Every Dog Has Their Day” & there are A LOT of patient ass ppl out here to see “just deserts served”! If it’s such a pain in the ass to deal w/ the horses or TRASH as you call it…get a different job! I’m sure your resume will be accepted at the slaughter house w/ flying colors & open arms. Cheers.
Ummm Commonsense, sunshine and butterflies, that would be that other blog....I don't agree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion, I would never do any business with folks who have this mindset, though. And people have a choice.
Uhm... I have news for Tracey, my horses are part of my FAMILY, not livestock. And so are my dogs and cats. How someone can work with cattle and horses and even compare the two is beyond me.
How the hell does someone like this get involved in animals? And STAY in animals?
I agree that what is most disturbing is not that she is in the business of selling horses to slaughter, but that she calls them "trash" if they are not going to make her enough money. I know many farmers and ranchers, and in a couple countries; most would be equally bothered by this type of talk, though would be too polite to say anything. The people I have met who routinely think of their stock (on whatever hoof) as trash are not folks I care to socialize with. And believe me, you know who they are, because this mentality doesn't just stay out in the field with the "trash", it permeates their lives. While I don't personally know this woman, the people I do know who think like this do not treat themselves or their families well either. They don't break any laws (usually) but they are hard to like.
>>Exactly the TRIP to slaughter is the problem - the bullet or the captive bolt is NOT the problem.<<
The captive bolt IS a problem when applied to a panicking, thrashing, frightened horse that does NOT have his head immobilized.
Do I REALLY need to post the gory footage here for all to see?
There is no comparison between a captive bolt and a panicked, trapped horse in a chute in a slaughterhouse and someone calmly putting the muzzle of a gun against the forehead of a horse standing in the field where he lives who has no reason to be alarmed and no idea that anything is about to happen.
Common sense, NO ONE FORCES ANYBODY TO BE INVOLVED IN A BUSINESS THAT INVOLVES LIVING CREATURES. As I have said MANY times, get into the car business - then what you cannot sell or what breaks down, you can crush into a cube and NO ONE will object.
Being in the horse industry is a CHOICE that should not be made if you are a JERK who does not care if the horses suffer unnecessary pain. CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE if you don't love horses. There are a million ways to make a living.
Okay I've finally read up to 142 comments and have a small opinion:
Slaughter, while necessary, should only be done on a humane basis. I have no problems with it as long as the horse isn't treated like shit. It's not like the animal DID anything to deserve being killed. Look at its history. People shaped its future.
Also, I believe that calling horses livestock is by no means demeaning to them. I've seen cows trained to do some pretty impressive stuff, as well as pigs. It's just the fact that horses are built to carry us AND move fast. We also have a VERY long history with the horse. There's that saying: Civilization was built on the back of a horse. It's SO true.
And last of all: Animal or not, calling something "trash" is trashy! That was fully intended. It's not like the animal had a choice. And to end up with that sorry woman, it can't possibly have HAD a choice. I'm pretty sure NO animal would want to be sent to her. ALL animals pick up on body language. This pony most likely thought she was threatening (I can only see this from the attitude behind her words--seeing horses as trash), and he threatened back. There's only so much an animal can take. And being treated like "trash" was definitely not on that pony's to do list!
But that's all I am going to say for now. The rest have said it, too.
Oh, and as for what Cathy just said, I totally agree. There's a huge difference between a panicked horse being knocked on the head for not standing still and then being "bolted", and a calm horse being "bolted". The latter needs to happen, not the former. We don't allow for cruelty in this country. Why is it happening on our slaughter-house floors?
Snaffles, I too grew up on a dairy and beef production farm where livestock were used for food. I don't have a problem with HUMANE slaughter, I eat meat.
My problem with this and what I take exception to is the fact that she takes animals, for example off the track, then rather than turning over the horses that don't work in her program to an adoption like Rerun, New Vocations or TB Friends, she goes out and makes a buck off their miserable death. And the statement about the pony? That was really unnecessary don't you think? Like the little pony had a plan, sat up all night waiting for his chance? Seriously?
I just think that as responsible breeders we should not support the belief that animals are disposable. No matter how you look at it horses are not just like cattle and pigs that are bred and raised for food. If you are pro slaughter for horses then you should not be breeding and contributing to the problem. I respect your opinion, I just think there are a lot of ways to look at this.
I haven't read through the comments, but does anyone else find it bizarre that this bitch has a page titled "In Loving Memory" on her site?
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
What a ***t.
Anyway, happy 2009 everyone!
Dairy cows are absolutely sent to slaughter once they no longer produce milk. They also support our beef industry rather heavily. Veal calves are also another sub-product of the dairy industry.
@Carolyn "Dairy cows are way too expensive to be a major beef source. "
That's B.S. They're expensive, too expensive to not to produce milk or euthanize humanly. Once they're done they are burgers.
snaffles and commonsense: you both missed the biggest point of the topic's comments. she referred to the horses as 'trash.' that is the most noxious of her comments to the person who politely tried to remind her of the risks of giving away a horse for free. tracy's total lack of professionalism is also very disturbing. that she smugly points out that she gives horses a 'thirty day get out of jail free' card is low-class and unethical on many levels. horses deserve much better than that type of callous thinking.
Hmmm so she used to breed Chincoteague ponies but isn't doing so anymore? Maybe it's just ME, but my thought is that if the pony in question wasn't actually born on either Chincoteague or Assateague Island, it would just be a grade pony/mustang. I for one certainly would not consider a pony to be an 'authentic' Chincoteague pony if it wasn't born there. A more accurate term would be "pony decended from Chincoteague ponies".
Also my opinion - the reason people are even paying thousands of dollars for basically inbred, unbroken feral ponies is because of the whole "Misty mistique" - they want a pony that was rounded up and swum across the channel on Pony Penning Day, just like the story.
Regarding the raw food diets - I would LOVE to get my cats started on that - we took 'em off dry cat food a couple years ago (our girl cat has asthma and gained a TON of weight after we adopted her - she was a semi-feral outdoor cat and became a lazy, quite tame, lap-hogging indoor cat - I suspect she wouldn't have gained all that weight if it weren't for the dry "weight control" cat food we were feeding them). I don't have a food grinder - I get the idea that the idea situation would be to purchase whole raw chickens and grind them up - bones, skin, giblets and all (cats can eat raw bones).
The problem is my boy cat is incredibly finicky to the point of even putting Morris to shame. Right now the only thing he will eat is Fancy Feast...he loathes IAMS, we had him on Natural Balance for awhile and he got sick of that. Maybe it's because he's 13 and getting old and even more crotchety than he was to begin with...
fugs, I agree with you 100%!!!
The captive bolt IS the problem just as much as the transportation. horses are often not stunned properly and die awake and in horrible pain. The fact is horses are slaughtered in facilities designed for cattle. Until someone takes the time to make a slaughter plant designed to humane and quickly kill a horse - they suffer. they suffer horribly.
I rescued my own horse from going to slaughter and It was the best decision I have ever made. He was used as a camp horse until he got too sick and weak to make money off of at the rip old age of 10. According to miss asshat in the post he would have been "trash". He turned out to be an anglo arab with quite the natural talent for jumping and my best friend for 14 years. He just died a year ago at 24. He was humanely euthanized after a severe heart attack. I still am thankful everyday that i bought him and he didn't suffer a horrific death at the slaughter. I have watched the gory videos fugs mentioned and if anyone is interested in seeing what exactly happens, just goggle CBC No Country for Horses. They recently did an investigative story about what really goes on in canadian slaughter plants. Canada is not a humane option to mexico. it is just as horrific and just as painful.
and for anyone interested in the fight to stop slaughter here in canada check out http://www.defendhorsescanada.org/info.php?id=20081020
no im not a member or anything i just really think what they are doing by getting awareness out is a good thing. Ignorance might be bliss - but how many more horses need to suffer before people stop hiding from what might upset them? And i know this is OT to the original post but there is just nothing humane about the horse slaughter industry when so much money is involved and no one making that money can be bothered to spend some of it to make it humane.
Okay, I consider horses livestock. Mainly because their care requirements are about the same as other livestock. I consider my horses pets. If the state asks me....they are LIVESTOCK. And I will lobby and fight to keep them classified as livestock. Taxes being a main reason. If horses were classified as pets I'm afraid we'd see barn closures. Fewer people could afford them.
I'm afraid there are more people like Queen of the Asshat's that we think. I think most of them are just smart enough to keep their mouth's shut, and to certainly not put anything in writing.
Twenty years ago, my views on proper care, and commitment to your horse was rare. Got teased. Called a bleeding heart etc. Now, I think my view is more accepted. That there really were more people like me than not. We are just more vocal now. And not as likely to be considered nutjobs.
"I only know this because I took agriculture in school."
Not sure where you took "agriculture" but TX A&M cries BS. :)
Just because I was curious, I checked on this. Here are the actual statistics on US beef export:
U.S. beef exports as percent of production:
2002: 9.0 percent
2003: 9.6 percent
2004: 1.9 percent
2005: 2.8 percent
2006: 4.4 percent
2007: 5.4 percent
That leaves almost 95% of US beef production IN THE US.
And, in 2007, commercial slaughter accounted for 34.3 million head of cattle, of which 27.9 were beef steers and heifers and 5.8 million were were "cull beef and dairy cows" -- a statistic which suggests that dairy cattle are considered lower quality beef for lower-quality use, including pet food and ground beef, not steak.
Just because someone told you so doesn't mean it's true, as we all know from reading Craig's list! :D
2007: 34.3 million head (27.9 million steers and heifers and 5.8 million cull beef and dairy cows)
GoLightly,
Why have you stopped signaling me? I've signaled you a few times and got no response.
As far as the invitation to visit my horse, it's an invitation and you don't have to go if you don't want to. There's no offence taken if you don't want to go.
I honestly believe that slaughter houses could have a use in our society..... If there were responsible enough people to ensure that regulations would be enforced.
My grandfather worked in a slaughter house.
That being said, I'm also a very passionate and talented horse person. I wish that our society had the integrity to ensure that only old/crippled/savage horses would end up at slaughter. However, we know that this just isn't true.
My grandmother told me a story of when a friend of her's husband owned a slaughter house. This woman competed in A circuit hunters down in California. She would often spend time in the slaughter house taking out the young thoroughbreds and making them into decent horses.
It's a shame that our young horses with talent and beauty end up in these places, yet alone fuglies.
Anyways, long story short, she was at the slaughter house one afternoon (this was back in the 70's) and she had just purchased a $30,0000 A circuit conformation hunter mare and had the mare shipped to the yard to be picked up by herself since she was there.
The deck hands had no idea that this mare was not to be slaughtered.... most didn't even speak english, yet alone care about the horses they sent up the shoot on a daily basis. The mare was processed just like all the rest. She was 2 minutes too late in trying to find her mare, even though she was on the same property.
In a way, I do believe in the slaughter houses. I had a palomino pony that I had easily spent $2000 on as a rehab. This little $%@* head was a rescue. He came to me under weight and unmannered 3 year old. I spent a year and a half on him, and unfortunately, he would savage anything that got near him (he was a gelding).
He savaged me several times, I had to keep a halter and lead on him at all times. He got me while I was feeding him, grooming him, walking him. He killed cats, he attacked other horses, he even attacked himself.
He was alright to ride, but he'd run at things across the fence at a dead run, ears back, teeth beared and hit that fence.. little kid, person, horse, dog... it did not matter. You could never.. ever trust him.
When he started violently savaging himself, I knew that something was too wrong to keep him. Unfortunately, he was such a pretty little pony, I knew I could never sell him. Had there still been killer buyers around, I would have sent him to them, to recoop some of the expenses I'd poured into him.
I spent countless time on this pony and had never seen an animal violently attack itself like this pony did. Bite his sides, his legs, he'd go at himself like a stallion goes after another stallion.
I ended up euthing him at 5 years old after he tried to attack a little 7 year old girl through the fence (He never got her but was very close) even through hot wire. Children love little palomino ponies... even the dangerous ones.
Do I believe in slaughter? To a degree, but I also believe that society isn't responsible enough to enforce that only certain animals get slaughtered humanely.
When $30,000 conformation hunter horses get processed the same as aggressive, unresponsive ones.. Well, you get the gist.
I'd also like to add, that I also believe horses should *always* be labeled as livestock. When horses are labeled as pets, we lose our agricultural advantage.
www.savewashingtonhorsefarms.org for example.
>>Also my opinion - the reason people are even paying thousands of dollars for basically inbred, unbroken feral ponies is because of the whole "Misty mistique" - they want a pony that was rounded up and swum across the channel on Pony Penning Day, just like the story.<<
They ought to call it Pony Drowning Day. I'm gonna have to do a blog on THAT in 2009 as well...lots of stories of the ones that don't make it. These days they try to take boats out there and pull the "sinkers" into the boats...but apparently it has not occurred to anybody to JUST STOP DOING THE STUPID THING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
I "liked" the part where she is trying to sound like a martyr for taking these horses to auction and selling them at a loss. Curious though that she was giving that pony away, so it isn't all about the money, if it was, she would have taken that one to auction too. She sounds like someone who is in conflict with what she is doing. She is working too hard to justify her actions; if she was really at peace with them she would not feel the need to. Perhaps in over her head business wise?
In Alberta you can take your horse to a rendering plant and have it put down for free right then and there while you wait. The Provincial association also recently issued a book on humane transport and how to kill a horse humanely (even shows where to aim the gun and what type of gun to use).
Karen
I wonder how many of this lady's show buddies are aware of her side business of being a kill buyer. That's basically what she's doing with the track horses and I bet the percentage she flips in 30 days to good homes is low. I bet she's lying out of both sides of her mouth at the track too. Sure, there are trainers that just want to dump, but a good number of them want their horses to get a second chance and I have seen her type come in and sweet talk the trainers telling them she's sending them all on to be show horses etc. Somebody should contact the race office at her favoured track and forward this letter to them.
I am all for rehoming ex racerhorses (TB and STB), but why not pick the ones you KNOW have a good chance of a second career and 30 days is never really enough time for a horse that has just raced. They need to be turned out longer than that just to come down from the track let alone be slammed back into training for a riding horse. This woman is a vile hosebeast.....
Well.. Happy F'ing New Year to you to Miss Trash.
BTW.. What's up with "IN LOVING MEMORY" on your Web site, Hag? Is this one of your own raised pieces of trash you sent to slaughter? I mean...why all of the sudden the sympathy? You'll excuse me if I don't believe an ounce of that crap.
Wow.. I'm impressed. Someone with the inability to type lower case makes life or death decisions on ex-race horses. I'm sure your evaluation is very through. Dam money whore.
Freaking Idiot!
Sorry Kelly- I call BS to that. We have a small time sheep breeding operation, 1 ram, 6 ewes.
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We had pigs, sheep, beef cattle and horses while I was growing up. Just my experience, but the pigs were the smartest, horses and cattle about the same but the horses were a bit easier to work with and sheep...dumb as a box of rocks. :)
nocetmare, how can you say that its ok for old, infirm etc are fine to be slaughtered? DO you know what they go through on those kill floors? I don't think its acceptable for any animal. You should probably go youtube up a few videos of horse slaughter and you may change your stance that this is ok for ANY animal. Wow.
Cats are very different than humans in that they've always eaten raw meat. Until the very recent invention of processed cat food, cats have alway lived by hunting prey and eating it raw or scavenging from carcasses. They tend to feed on the gastrointestinal tacks. As a result, they don't have the same susceptibilities to gastrointestinal track bacteria that humans have. In addition, it is essential to the feline diet that they eat the gi track.
The barf diet, as long as it has the correct additives, is perfectly fine for a cat. My experience is that the cat stops having food allergies and maintains a glossy coat and correct weight on the barf diet. I would highly recommend the diet.
OMG First does this lady actually believe that horse hides are used for leather???!!!
I know I went way past the obvious shit wrong with this woman. BUT I am a leathersmith, AND if I thought for a second that the leather I was using was from horses, I would go out of business! OMG OMG WTF!!!
SOS Horses
SOS Leatherworks
"A property is designated A1 no matter what lives on it. It has to do with the area it is in, not what lives on it."
Zoning and taxing are two different things. A1 may be a zoning designation in one area, but it may refer to ag use in another.
Here, zoning determines the *permissable* uses, but usage determines the tax class. Of course, those of us outside incorporated city limits don't have zoning issues -- but we most certainly do have tax issues!
I have ~27 acres; my taxes are actually less than my neighbor's one acre property. This is partly because he has a bigger house than I do, but primarily because I have Ag exemption.
snaffles said: Yes she's probably not an overly emotional person, it sounds like she was raised a farm girl where animals had a purpose, to provide work and food first, companionship second.
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I can understand this. But here's the deal for me...why hide the fact that she ships to slaughter if the horses are "trash"? She has an "in loving memory" page on her website, inferring that she is emotionally attached and loves her horses. One or the other lady...do you love and care for them or are they just a business and viewed as $$ and nothing else? If you believe in what you're doing, why not disclose it all on the website and to clients?
Hmm, her attitude is rather callous.
If she is into rehabbing horses, why does she limit them to 30 days (as implied elsewhere)? I thought the only way to quickly rehab a horse was with "Horse Whisperer" type techniques? Or maybe a carrot stick (LOL!)
Racetracks should be warned about her, Fugs. If they sell to her, aren't they basically selling to an agent of the kill buyer, or the kill buyer one level removed?
I don't equate inhumane treatment of horses with leather use. Apples and oranges and asshats.
The quantity of livestock she is dealing with seems to be numbing her to the special abilities that each animal may possess.
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Is she equating "fugly" with "trashy"? If I breed my mare to her stallion, and it comes out the wrong kolor, is it 'trashy'?
Definitely an overbreeding problem. If horses were rare, every single one of them would be coddled and preserved and cherished as they deserve.
They deserve to be treated kindly because they are alive.
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Perhaps if she can't make money turning 'trashy' horses, she'll stop buying them. But if people are giving horses away, she'll probably view it as "profit" to take it and then sell it to the KB, right?
Ugh. I need to barf at that thought....
"As far as I know, no one puts a tax on pets."
You don't have to pay a license fee? That's a tax. :)
Windsor said...
"This is her standard "letter" the exact same shit is posted on the New England Equine Rescue website, she must have written the same "letter" to them too or it is just something she simply copies and pastes to everyone.
http://www.newenglandequinerescues.com/badnewsbadpeople"
I knew the name (and letter) sounded familiar. I had read it before.
Ugh. Dairy beef. In England, a lot of the beef is male dairy cow, and there's just NO comparison with breeds bred for meat. I'm betting I know where most of the 'dairy beef' in the US ends up. McDonald's, Burger King, White Castle...the list goes on, doesn't it.
And no comparison again between the beef in the supermarket and the beef my mother-in-law and her husband raise for the family. They raise only for their own needs, and feed only grain and pasture grass. (I don't know what they worm with, I've never asked). No antibiotics, no steroids, and the animals treated with the utmost respect until their time comes.
ALL livestock should be treated like that.
Of course, to do so, we'll all need to eat less meat, and maybe breed a bit less ourselves...there's too damn many of us.
Then again. Most Americans need to eat less, period.
equus said...
snaffles and commonsense: you both missed the biggest point of the topic's comments. she referred to the horses as 'trash.' that is the most noxious of her comments to the person who politely tried to remind her of the risks of giving away a horse for free. tracy's total lack of professionalism is also very disturbing. that she smugly points out that she gives horses a 'thirty day get out of jail free' card is low-class and unethical on many levels
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Yes equus. I agree. I would never take a horse to a "trainer" who says they get 30 days to prove themselves and if they don't, off to the kill buyer they go. What trainer, in their right mind, would say such a thing???
Lolas, you're right. I have never seen those videos. I watched a mink video once and saw how they skinned the animals alive and it practically traumatized me.
Being raised on a farm, when we would butcher our cows and sheep, a gunshot to the head and then slit of the throat was both humane and quick. I would like to assume that for a large animal like a horse, it's similar, as I've been told by my grandfather.
I'll go watch the video....
Kelly said... "The only difference between a horse and a cow is the emotional value WE give them."
The problem with that statement is that you could say the same thing about dogs, cats, and any other animal we keep as pets. They are pets because we assigned them emotional value. So are you going to send your dog to slaughter or eat your cat, or approve of someone else doing the same, based on that same logic? Somehow I doubt it.
I personally don't feel that any animal should be treated as trash, whether it is a dog or a cat, a horse, or a cow. If it were up to me, I would require that cows, chickens, and yes, horses, be treated just as humanely as we insist dogs and cats be treated. Just because an animal is going to be used for food doesn't mean it ought to be miserable in the meantime.
The pet vs. livestock debate clouds the issue at its heart. There really isn't that big of a difference between a parakeet and a chicken, or a dog and a cow, other than the fact that we as a society have decided that it's okay to eat one species and not the other.
In other words, we need to quit splitting hairs and decide: Is it okay to mistreat animals, or not okay?
Its not similar to slaughtering beef at home. Its horrific what they do in slaughter houses and those horses are terrified. Its just not a good end for any animal no matter how old, crippled or savage it may be. I still can't understand how people can even work in that industry...
This is a perfect example of when screaming obscenities at an idiot is appropriate. If someone is knowingly this callous then scream away. This is a far different scenario than someone who has made an mistake out of ignorance and needs friendly advice.
SOS - Come on you can't be that naive - horse leather has been used in north america and around the world for thousands of years. Although not thick enough for tack type leather, horsehide is considred some of the best for gloves and apparel. Like the cattle market, nothing on the carcass of the animal goes to waste.
I wonder if her local newspaper would be interested in a copy of your readers email and Traceys response and ad? Maybe a nice Human Interest Story, or check out our local businesses!
"Well if horses are livestock, why do I have to pay taxes on the hay I buy for them, but not for goats or sheep?"
Are you in the horse business? If not, that's why you pay sales tax on anything your state considers taxable.
FuglyHorseoftheDay said: "I will never support slaughter but I would support a place where you could drop off your horse and it was immediately euthanized"
I am not a big fan of euthanizing animals unless there truly is no other choice. So I think you would have to require that the people dropping off their horses provide evidence that there really isn't any other choice. Otherwise you'd get people saying, "I just don't want this horse anymore," and not bothering to try to find it a new home. What an awful reason to have to die -- simply because one person doesn't want you!
Sadly that is such a typical attitude of horse owner/trainer/breeders. Almost ever horseperson I know who makes their living off horses in this area thinks like that. (northern california) I think the longer they make their living off of them the less they actually care.
I would given anything to spend my whole day with horses and be able to support myself and I wouldn't care if it was just cleaning stalls. I have always wanted that since I was tiny I have always been completely and totally obsessed with them . I will never understand how someone so lucky to have that opportunity can't appreciate the animals and treat them as objects. Blows me away. Absolutely frustrating to the point of tears to see someone else living my dream and jacking it all up.
OK - well maybe dictionary & thesaurus entries can shed some light on the difference between 'slaughter' and 'euthanasia'. Check out Online Dictionary and Online Thesaurus
BTW - Breeding Chincoteague Ponies then sending them to slaughter??? It's bad enough people breed Mustangs... You're a class act there Miss Tracy. Marguerite Henry would be so proud...
Oh, and the whole 'Trash' thing. Last I checked, in just about every religion, no sentient being is considered 'trash'...
And yeah, what JR said. Can't fix a kick??? You're in the wrong business babe.
What will it take to make profit from horse slaughter illegal? With all the broohaha all over the world about food safety, food labeling etc., why has no one sounded the alarm about (unregulated, untested, non-inspected) U.S. horse meat entering the food chain? (for those of you who need a nudge towards the door of the Clue Bus, it's because there's $$$ - and probably tax-free to those who participate).
But seriously, think of what 'goodies' a tested sample of fresh OTTB would yield, and apply that scenario to a beef supplier selling for human consumption.
Well said sassysmom.
Fugly said: "It's like with cosmetics. I only buy cruelty-free. I vote with my dollars about how I would like cosmetics to be produced. Simple."
Me too! Yay! I even bought my horse cruelty-free shampoo and conditioner. I figured he wouldn't want to use products that had been tested on animals, either. ;o)
Oh, and do any of you guys give your horses peppermints? You might want to reconsider. They contain animal bones and hooves, possibly from horses. The thought of my horse eating parts of another horse makes me shudder. :o(
@ djl
"Huge yuck factor. Plus, would I have to worry about the rampant use of Ivermectin on horses and that possibly being injested by my Collie?"
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Exactly. Ivermectin and every other drug that horses could have in their system. Dewormer, supplements, pain meds... You can think of horses as livestock if you want, but they're not cows. They're not raised to be consumed.
OK, off on a tangent triggered by a comment about "cruelty-free" cosmetics.
Do you all realize that "cruelty-free" doesn't mean that the products, or the ingredients used to make the products, have never been tested on animals? It only means that the company has only used ingredients that have already been tested on animals by someone else and classified as safe.
I'm probably the only person in the world that gets bent out of shape by this, but it always ticks me off, because to me, if someone tested the product/ingredients on animals, then it isn't really "cruelty-free." Those companies are letting some other company take the heat for the animal testing, while benefiting from it after the fact. It all just seems so hypocritical.
Yes, I know. I'm a freak. :-)
Alphmare:
You are right, a license is a tax although very minimal.
In my county, 95% of properties are classified A1, the only ones that are not are businesses of which there are very few.
The A1 classification is not determined by what the property is used for. I have 30 acres and I have horses, the rest of my neighbors have acreage but no livestock, no crops, etc. We are all A1.
There are tax breaks associated with the A1 classification that are available.
I see Hagzilla is from NJ , from her response I would have sworn she was from around here.
So sad.
Personally, I think they should use child killers etc. as the test subjects that they use animals for. Ultimately most products are destined for human consumption/use, so why test on animals? Test it on waste of skin humans.
Sadly, I value animal life over many humans these days. Queen Asshat being a prime example....
Equus said. “snaffles and commonsense: you both missed the biggest point of the topic's comments. she referred to the horses as 'trash.' that is the most noxious of her comments to the person who politely tried to remind her of the risks of giving away a horse for free. tracy's total lack of professionalism is also very disturbing. that she smugly points out that she gives horses a 'thirty day get out of jail free' card is low-class and unethical on many levels. horses deserve much better than that type of callous thinking.”
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I agree with Equus. While I don’t agree with the slaughter process, her comments would not have been so offensive if she had not used the wording that she did. And her view could not be misinterpreted, she made her point VERY clear.
I would doubt that many horses get rehabbed by her. With that attitude, she would not be very successful in finding the potential in an OTTB. Horses are very sensitive to the handler’s motives and would not be responsive to a trainer that viewed them as “meat” until proven otherwise.
The horses do not understand that they must prove themselves or be sent to slaughter; otherwise they would miraculously be doing multiplication on the Opera show!
I wonder how many horses she even intends to try to rehab, or is she just saying that to justify her other actions. I would bet that she takes them with the full intent to sell them to slaughter.
BubbaLove said... "I would bet that she takes them with the full intent to sell them to slaughter."
Jeez, you have a point there, you can pack on some weight in 30 days and up the ante now couldn't you?
Okay.. I was aware that they use a bolt to the head as a bullet is too expensive. I was not, however, aware that this was a manual procedure done by a person. I thought it was an automatic, mechanical thing.. they put grain in a shoot, the horse puts his head in the shoot to eat and boom.. done. Nearly perfect every time. But as this video shows, that's not the case at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04mvw6tTHrs&feature=channel
Pretty much shows what goes on. It's not anything that I thought it was. How sad. If horses were slaughtered like our cows on the farm, I'd have no trouble with it. But I guess they are not at all.
Thanks Lolas.
>>Sorry Kelly- I call BS to that. We have a small time sheep breeding operation, 1 ram, 6 ewes.
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I raise sheep. I have 65 plus sheep and then they lamb so I can have 100-125 sheep at some times. Not all sheep are dumb. Some are quite clever. One was able to flip the latch on the stall gate and let herself out. She would rub against the tack room sliding room to open it and then go in flip the libs to help herself to grain. Then she would go back to her stall. The dead give away was that she could not shut the gate or doors behind her. I have some that are vey clever and some are dumb. It also depends on the breeds. It also depends on how they were raised too.
BuffyB - I understand what your saying, but she's in a business. The animals that don't work out currently still have commercial/monetary value. We don't know, maybe originally she did work with rescues to re-home, maybe not. But most rescues cannot take them all, and they too are looking for the ones that can go on to have useful careers over those that are going to need to be cared for for life.
The horses that do come to her could have very easily been sent straight to New Holland - she's at least giving thema chance. And 30 days is not unreasonable. Most trainers can tell in 30 days if the horse has the disposition/ability to continue with re-training.She's not asking for money to run a rescue, she's retraining the ones she can, selling the ones at auction that she can't or feels are too dangerous to try.
As far as using the term trash to describe the horse - it might be a harsh word. But I don't think she put half as much thought into it as everyone here has seemed to. You could call them culls, canners, or fuglies. As far as the pony who kicked his last person. I have come accross horses and ponies who are just plain mean and no amount of love or rehab will cure them - that being said - I'd dispose of them myself, rather than take the chance of them falling into the hands of someone who could get hurt - especially in the case of a pony who could get sold as a kids horse based on looks alone.
Alright...about this dairy beef conversation...
I've provided links to show that my statements are from factual claims, however I misunderstood to think it was for the entire USA and not just Southern California.
Snaffles pointed out my error and I corrected it.
Kindly read all the posts about this dairy beef converstaion before you point out the same thing that has been pointed out several times. :) Thanks.
AlphaMare -
The agriculture classes I took where classes in association with Future Farmers of America. I -believe- TX A&M is afilliated with them.
My heart sank when I read this blog entry. Calling living creatures trash. Hopefully one kicks her head off soon.
Ok, on the off chance that I get killed for this.
I totally see Snaffle's point.
A lot of people treat horses like any other livestock and once they've lost their usefulness discard of them to the owner's benefit.
Having been researching dairy beef today, what this woman is doing is not any different than a dairy farmer lactating a cow and finding her to not be a high producer and then selling her off for beef.
The dairy farmer, just like this woman, is buying/taking this animal with the soul intention of turning a profit. If they dont turn out to be good working animals, then they'll be good dead animals.
I'm not saying that I like what the lady is doing, I'm simply saying she isnt any different than all the other ranchers out there, she's simply small scale.
It still makes me die a little on the inside to read her reply even though I've had a different light shined on the whole subject.
Being pro-slaughter I happen to agree with her, though she could have been "nicer" in her reply about her stance.
Well Broadway Pony I've never heard a dairy farmer consider an animal trash if it had to get sold. To me they seem more remorseful over the cow than this *&^% is feeling about this"purebred Chincotegue broodmare" gagged on that description too.
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