Someone just sent me this article and I am sitting here rolling my eyes.
A Dramatic Rescue For Doomed Wild Horses of the West
*sigh* OK, so you buy 30,000 mustangs. Who is going to administer their care? Where are you going to even put them? How fast are you going to get a bunch of unhandled stallions gelded - or are you, oops, going to have 40,000 mustangs next year? And ultimately, I hope you plan to support them for life and that your fortunes don't change, because if there were homes for 30,000 mustangs, they would already be in them.
Do you ever read Craigslist? There aren't enough homes for broke, sensible registered horses right now, much less something that will jump out the open part at the top of the stock trailer door to get away from a human being.
Don't get me wrong. I'm very grateful for what these people did for animals during Katrina. I'm thrilled if someone this wealthy wants to help horses. I just have to question, what IS the plan? Right now it sounds a lot like the ebay auction was ending in 10 seconds and she couldn't help but click.
I personally think euthanasia was a good plan (far preferable to handing them out willy-nilly to people who wind up posting stuff on Horsetopia like "we got this BLM mare and now we can't catch her, what do we do?") and my only question is, when is the government going to extend that kindness to all of the tame horses that wind up on double-deckers bound for Canada and Mexico? Hey, if the mustang proponents don't want all of those government-funded euth services, give them to the rescues already!
Really, all this is about is more inability to deal with death. If 30,000 mustangs starve to death on the range in the winter, hey, that's ok because that's nature. Putting them to sleep which takes seconds and doesn't involve suffering, oooooooh nooooooooo, that's eeeeevil. I just wish I could put something in the water that promotes logical thinking...
Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Money doesn't fix everything!
Posted by fuglyhorseoftheday at 9:05 AM
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502 comments:
That is crazy. Thats all I really even have to say about it.
#2!!!!
THIRD!
Ok I just wanted to be obnoxious and put that there, as I still do not get the significance.
I went and read the article.
I wish Mr. Pickens would take some of my lawn ornaments.
Just ridiculous
The whole issue is about management... Management of current abuse situations, management of these mustangs, management of the range land available to them, management of the backyard asshats breeding inferior stock.
This is really hard to believe for some reason!!
Well $1,050,000 later their feet are trimmed!
I dont see how anyone can care properly for that number of horses at one time. There is no way they will get checked regulary for injuries etc. How long will this fad last with this woman? Does she realize the expenses of vetting and farrier etc. Not to mention that none of them are even going to be willing to be handled by people! Insane...
"Madeleine Pickens is looking for land in the West that would be an appropriate home for the horses."
Call me crazy but wouldn't it make more sense to have enough land ready BEFORE purchasing 30,000 (or even 100) horses?
Maybe they can run free in between T.Boone's windmills?
according to a recent documentary i saw on t.v. there isnt a shortage of food for the mustangs. it is an attempt by BLM to get public support for their removal and slaughter. BLM is also stating since so many mustangs have been removed, the gene pool is so limited there isnt enough diversity to create off-spring without inbreeding. BLM again is attempting to elimate the symbol of our heritage in attempt to get more money for leasing out the land to cattle, sheep ranchers and the oil companies for drilling. i think we should just quit messing with them and just let them be. everytime humans get involved, it is always more of a mess when we leave then it was before.
>>Well $1,050,000 later their feet are trimmed!<<
*snort* Yeah, as soon as you find enough farriers who want to handle batshit wild mustangs.
Maybe we should factor the cost of tranq darts in there...
Ah, but it'll probably be "they're mustangs! They are going to live naturally!" aka no hoof care, vet care, deworming, etc...
There are so many issues here. Are they going to sterilize these horses so, the 30,000 does not turn into 100,000? If man did not build and OWN all the land, would there still be land for these horses to live their lives out freely? I think it is a wonderful thing the Pickens family is doing. Hopefully they work it all out realistically. If anyone has $ to burn, it would be them. I know most of us here, if given their fortune, would absolutely contribute to the health and welfare of the horses here in the USA.
well, i guess if anyone can afford 30,000 horses, it is t pickens boone and wife!
but, seriously, there has to be some accountability here for the mustangs. i do not know why they can't dart them with a contraceptive that will be good for one or two years. i believe those drugs are on the market now. if breeding were curtailed for even a little while, it would help tremendously. plus, stopping the cattlemen's lobbyists in washington would go a long way in helping the wild horses have land to graze.
*Sigh* I don't know what the answer is to this situation. I think it's a bit early to say really. If they take responsible steps and have the stallions gelded and then maybe tried to slowly place the horses after training and weren't in a big hurry to do so, then things may work out. If she's just a bleeding heart and doesn't care for them properly, then the horses will be the ones to suffer in the long run.
I would hope that Madeleine Pickens, being the billionaire that she is and being that they led the fight to close the slaughterhouses in the US according to ( http://www.santafenewmexican.com/National%20News/Dramatic-rescue-for-doomed-horses ) will have the horse’s welfare in mind.. I think it’s a great thing, but look forward to an action plan as this is a huge project which hopefully sterilization will be #1 on the list.. Hopefully this will have a happy ending and set forth a strong future for our Mustangs
I'm so sick and tired of hearing about the fight between cattle ranchers and those that love wild life.
I have an idea...how about we just go ahead and kill off all the existing wild life, at least those species that happen to be in the way of people and settle the argument once and for all?
This is where our world is heading for, at least if we don't keep our OWN population under control.
It's part of the Pickens plan! Start using natural-found horses for a new energy plan!
I guess my fear is that it reminds me of Chihuahua Rescue. There's this batshit crazy rich lady in Southern California - she's Gregory Peck's daughter or ex-wife or something. She bails all the Chihuahuas out of the shelters and then they live FOREVER in little cages. A lot of them die because of course no one is properly caring for that many. She has like FOUR HUNDRED of them. Burbank drove her out, so now she's out in the desert somewhere where they don't enforce anything. Bailing them out is always only the beginning...where do you go from there? Do you have a plan? Do you have enough manpower? How many horsepeople, even professionals, are capable of safely handling adult mustangs (or want to?) Can you find vets to treat them? Farriers to trim them? Even with unlimited financial resources, some of these things aren't easy.
This is nuts! That could be some crazy kind of animal hoarding! I think she has good intentions but that whole thing is a bit out of control... if she can't find room for all 30,000-then what? What happens when her and her husband pass away....who wants to inherit 30,000+ wild mustangs, their vet/ferrier/food. bills, and the taxes on the land they live on-NOT ME!!!!
Urban Coyote said...
*Sigh* I don't know what the answer is to this situation. I think it's a bit early to say really. If they take responsible steps and have the stallions gelded and then maybe tried to slowly place the horses after training and weren't in a big hurry to do so, then things may work out. If she's just a bleeding heart and doesn't care for them properly, then the horses will be the ones to suffer in the long run
--------------
One could only hope it would work out, but honestly, I just do not think there are 30,000 people
wishing to have a mustang, or else they would have gotten one already?
I think what Andylover said has a lot of merit.
Any time humans go to "manage" something they f-it up.
Nature has its own way of taking care of things. Why not leave well enough alone, stop kowtowing to the cattle people that want free public lands.........
Setting aside the hoof care, vet care and routine worming . . .
Just how does one fence in 30,000 horses? That's a lot of hot tape and t-posts. ;)
Fugs I'm going to have to somewhat disagree with you here.
The issue I have with the BLM was two fold:
1) They proposed allowing adoption without limits (i.e. for slaughter). As far as the BLM is concerned, that would be a lot cheaper than gov funded euthanasia. So I'm willing to bet a lot of horses would go that route - not the euthanasia route.
2) I don't believe the gov had the environment or horses' interests at heart. I think they were being pressured by budgets and by industrial ranching lobbies over use of the grazing lands.
Here is the article from the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/17/AR2008111703680.html
Anyway, the Pickens thing: I'll wait to see how they consider management and environmental impact. I saw Pickens on 60 Minutes recently. They already own a lot of property as it is and could certainly afford to manage wild horse herds. Having large animal populations in private hands does have some implications though - like after Pickens and wife croak.
Although I'd wonder if this is more of a statement to call attention to the issue. Looks like they've been involved in the slaughter debate before.
Fugs, this one is going to get some people FIRED up, and I bet the number of comments soars.
That said, mustangs "wild on the range" are still managed by the BLM, contracting with ranchers to feed mares through the winters, gelding stud colts, ect. But the do not receive foot care, nor vaccinations that I'm aware of. On the open range the horses feet stay in check with the miles of walking across varied terrain.
Let them be wild? C'mon, really. Do we want to see the mustang herds go unmanaged so that range land, be it for cattle, sheep, or horses, is being compromised and stock is being left starving? Don't think so.
Back to the management thing... I think this gal's heart may be in the right spot, but I hope she has a lot of people advising her. If she does come up with the land to turn them back out, it needs to be mares and studs too young to breed. Older studs need to be gelded, cull the cripples, adopt out what you can, and get the herd to a manageable size.
So they don't sterilize them... at all??! Really?
Dang! All this press on horse over population and our own government can't do something as simple as gelding a select number of horses or using that implant that works as birth control for mares?
I am exceedingly uneducated on this manner. Can someone confirm? Really they don't? They just turned them loose and said "Run pony run!" and never looked back until there were too many?
Wow and wow!
I'm feeling kinda sick - got hop off the blog for a bit...
Hmmm.... lets just see here:
33000 horses @ 25 acres each (cuz you ain't gonna be able to find enough acres of prime pasture for that many) = 600,000 acres AT LEAST. Maybe in Montana? The Dakotas? Probably the only states even a billionaire could afford that much land in.
Lets say 6 million for land.
Gelding of half the herd- over 2 million dollars at $130 a head.
I am not even going to go into hoof care, feeding during horrendous blizzards, worming, etc. We all know how much all that stuff costs. Just multiply by 33000. *sigh*
You know, I love the fact that there are still wild horses in the States. I do. But there comes a point when you have to be practical, and to me, this smacks of ego, and exactly what you said: "Money doesn't fix everything" along with god knows how many mental problems... lack of common sense being the biggest.
The system we have for dealing with wild horses does not work. It is insane to keep un-adoptable horses in feedlots until they die of old age. Absolute insanity. (and if you look at the money involved in doing this, especially NOW, it's even more ridiculous. That money could be put to use damn near anywhere and be more effective) It is insane to let these horses breed, especially when their numbers are too high to begin with. It's a mess, and cleaning up messes can be ugly. People who can't deal with that need to go back to putting their heads in the sand, let someone tough enough to deal with it do their job, and get this problem dealt with. With a new system. One that doesn't involve adopting out thousands of horses to an uninformed public, or keeping horses in feedlots forever.
American's are spoiled, pansy asses wearing rose colored glasses. Rather than spend millions of dollars trying to "save" these wild horses why not use that money lobbying for common sense? That kind of money could do a lot in the hands of the right people.
Someone hasn't done her homework.
I see what you were talking about... I read several articles about this just yesterday. I wanted to email it, but I didn't know if it was worthy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27738672/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27776339/
The first one is the article, the second is the update.
If she wants them, she needs to pay the $20 million to keep them in government care for the next year, not make Congress shell out the money.
Personally, I plan to wait and see what Mrs. Pickens plan is before I make any judgements as to whether this is good or bad. I am willing, at this point, to give her the benefit of the doubt.
it just doesnt make anysense. lets close all the evil slaugher houses in the us, cause that will solve problems here, and then WE arent resopnsible for slaughter (doesnt matter the horses suffer 100x's worse now thank you mrs pickens), but now, lets SAVE WILLLLD horses. What about the great horses all around?? Papered registered, proven winners for 1000obo??? 20 year old horses that people cant feed, 50 obo... you KNOW where theyre all headed. But yes, please. lets save wild ones that CAN fend for themselves. fucking morons.
I don't know much about whether or not this will be successful, but I am confused/surprised about the comments about wild horses needing to be cared for by farriers and vets....they certainly do NOT need feet care and wormers in the wild. Feet are trimmed naturally with miles of daily grazing and walking in rocky river beds, and most scientists agree that horses have natural mechanisms for worming themselves in the wild. (Otherwise, there wouldn't be 30,000 feral horses as the point of contention anyhow...they would have all died of disease.) Like, for example, wolves in the wild eat egg shells regularly, and scientists think that the egg shells act as a natural wormer by breaking up worms in the intestine.
So, if Mrs. Pickens can find sufficient land for 30,000 horses(!), rest assured that the horses can take care of themselves. The concern should really rest more with population control...she needs to focus on sterilizing a large portion of them so that, like fugs said, she doesn't end up for 45,000 next spring.
I'm interested to see how this little story plays out. Mrs. Pickens is nuts if she thinks she's adopting 30,000 horses--in no time flat if they're turned out together and the studs aren't gelded first--it will turn into 100,000 horses, all inbred and fuglier than they are already.
Have you ever been to the BLM website, where they have photos of the mustangs offered for adoption? Conformationally they are small, weedy, rumpless, narrow, crooked jugheads. I wouldn't want to have to look at one of them in my field, let alone deal with breaking it and all that.
Off-topic, my daily peruse of Craigslist brings me possibly a worse horse-for-sale photo than the one of the Appaloosa taking a leak:
http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/923669489.html
And one of a NATURAL TWH, so now we know what that looks like:
http://lexington.craigslist.org/grd/924032961.html
Is anyone going to email Mrs. Pickens's people to see if she has a plan, besides turning these mustangs back out? Maybe I should apply for a cushy desk job as her mustang liaison!
I'm happy that some get the chance at adoption, but at the same time, I'm wondering why they are teated so differently from other winld animals... This may be the hunter's wife in me talking and I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but when we have an over population problem with most wild animals, a hunting season is put into place. They may be horses, but they are still WILD. I would rather have a Mustang hunting season than year round horse slaughter.
jeez there has to be some sort of control? right?
As I was unloading the dishwasher and thinking about this folly...
Why not reopen a slughter plant or two in the U.S. and process these horses and let them go to countries where people are starving, like Africa. Why not make them useful????
Another cluster-f government institution - the BLM. If it were well managed, there would be no excess horses in "moldering" pens. Oh, the BLM can't manage horses? Then done with it. The BLM is fired.
The BLM should be facing the wrath of Americans for their incompetence and not be just a mention in a Washington Post "Oh, isn't that sweet" feel-good story. I suppose everyone is quite happy that their taxes perpetuate this appalling situation. No? Then fire the BLM. Get them out of the horse business.
Pickens would have been smarter to use her cash to hire a lobbyist to put an end to the gross mismanagement of wild horses.
putmeincharge41day -
I'd vote for you!
I don't know what you people are thinking. These are wild horses. They don't need vaccines, gelding farrier, or vet care. Sheesh, people get a clue. She's just going to get enough land for them to be free and safe, and live naturally. She wont have to feed or care for them. They'll dig for water in the dry years. Don't you all watch movies?
Byrumsf,
Yes to a degree they will take care of themselves. There will be an attrition rate. How large the rate will depend on how much land, and the quality of the forage. Lived in the Southwest for years, had cattle. You need a lot of high desert. We had 30,000 acres of lease land. And we still fed. We had no where near 30,000 head, hell we didn't have near 3000.
When you get the "common sense juice" figured out, can I get some for the guys I work with?
pchoofinit said...
If man did not build and OWN all the land, would there still be land for these horses to live
===================================
This is why I am an advocate for the two children per family idea. Every human needs a place to live, that is why we need to regulate our own numbers to keep us from destroying the planet and keep us from totally using up all available resources. Eventually there will be no other choice.
She wants to adopt the 30,000 horses currently held.
There are currently also an estimated 30,000 horses still roaminig wild.
Each year government-hired cowboys round up 7,000 to 13,000 horses (per article), so who's going to care for those addtl. horses every year?
Where will she find the land, that will support that many horses all year long, enough water supply and feed in the winter?
She sounds like a rich hoarder.
I'm in the 'wait and see what Pickens' plan is before making a judgment' camp. The woman is a billionaire. If anyone has the resources to straighten this mess out it is her. How do you know her plan doesnt include euthanasia of part of the herd?
equestrian504,
Very good point.
HandH-
They're not wild, they're feral. Therefore I'd argue that they should be maintained like a feral cat colony, rather than culled/hunted like deer and rabbits.
Yes, I agree - for the horses to live well, she'll have to buy an insane amount of land. I can't even being to imagine how much...But, theoretically, as long as the land is sufficient, the horse population will continue to grow. Fugly or not, they will persist. (As evidenced by the sheer number she just adopted!)
So, I guess my point is that we don't need to be writing letters to this woman telling her that she needs to send a farrier out to all 30,000 horses and that she needs to buy 1 million tubes of Ivermectin. Rather, we need her to focus on controlling the population through gelding efforts. That's far more relevant to solving the problem.
Oh for shits sake!!!!!!
Where are these peop;e storing their common sense? Up their arses?
I wonder if I could get a millionaire to adopt me.
Even if she euthanizes all 30,000 (wow, what a pile of carcasses that would create, a bio hazard for sure), it's not going to fix the ongoing problem with BLM and mustang managment.
She needs to spend the money getting that mess figured out.
Oh for GAWDS SAKE! GELD 99.99999% of the stallions and leave the rest loose on their lands! the gelding will help keep populations well in control. What foals are born will be better quality since what stallions breeding will have been hand picked for conformation. Round up every 4-5 years, cut colts and adopt out ones that can be.
Ranchers that are grazing their cattle on *public, tax payer owned land* can just kiss this taxpayer's fanny. The horses were most likely there first, and you're making money off public land. Deal with it.
byrumsf,
I couldn't even begin to wrap my brain around how many acres. Hell, how many sections? She's got to have a plan. If she's been involved with the slaughter and rescue end of things for any length of time, she's gotta have a plan, right?
I would think if anybody could pull this off, it would be her with all her money. I hope she knows what she is getting into. I hope she starts sterilizing them ASAP.
Most of those "wild horse herds" started out as ranch stock. Let them run, grow up, toughen up. Round up the herd yearly, cull, take the young ones in for ranch horses, turn them loose again. You started to see some bad conformation or evil foals, shoot the bad stud or mares in the herd, and turn loose some good brood stock.
Oh yeah, but that's management. Can't have that because the people that believe meat comes wrapped in plastic and milk comes in a box get their panties in a bunch.
I agree with byrumsf...
Wild horses do not need vet care, hoof trims and dewormers. They already have the proper mechanisms in place to take care of themselves. The focus here needs to be on sterilization and prevention of more mustangs. I'm sure Mrs. Pickens is well aware of the overpopulation problem since she has been previously involved in efforts to end slaughter. Surely she wouldn't dive head first into a herd of 30K wild horses with no game plan. If anyone has the money to manage a situation of this proportion, it would be the Pickens. I don't see what the big deal is if they have the money to furnish enough grazing land to ensure these animals live out their lives in a protected environment. I'm anxious to see how this turns out.
She is not buying horses that are roaming, she buying the 30,000 currently being warehoused by the BLM.
This does not address the issues still facing the wild mustangs reproducing in the wild.
I was able to find at a cursory glance that they own at least one portion of land that is 120,000 acres.
I dont think its unfathomable that they would own a shitton more somewhere else. Just look at Ted Turner.
And what is it about Mustangs that brings out the "crazy" in the average Joe/Jane. Because they are out there breeding like bunnies in the wild do they somehow have greater merit than old Suzy who has been a kid’s babysitter horse her whole career but now is to old and going to auction?
http://fernvalley01.blogspot.com/
equestrian054 I totally agree. Who's to say she isn't going to euth the weak or sick ones?
Amen, Kestrel!!!
Like everything else, once man touches it, it's a mess. The horses aren't the problem on the range, it's the cattle.
Heck, I could manage 30,000 horses, given a couple of teams of helpers. Divide the sexes, then geld the boys. Run everyone thru a chute for vaccinations, wormings, and hoof trims on the ones that need them then turn them out on the range that she's going to find for them. Then, put prisoners to work on ranch horses to mange the herd and over see their health and welfare. Not only is that free labor, but it gets these people out of the jails and puts them to work. The most promising horses can be cut out and broke to ride, and possible sold to homes, or used to ride to manage the herd. Heck, I'd pay money to be able to drive my car thru the lands where these horses will roam, I'd think others would too.
Does the BLM euth any of the sick and injured horses in their holding pens?
If so, these are horses already in the corrals, not the other 30,000 estimated still loose on the ranges.
So every year, they will be more caught and the ones not being adopted, those numbers are dwindling, go into holding pens forever.
Sad. Adopting them and letting them loose again is not the answer.
Those ranchers pay taxes. Those ranchers contribute to the economy, our standard of living, and quality of life here. You may be a vegetarian, I am however not. You trying to limit their lifestyle, heritage and way of making a living is just as wrong as them trying to limit yours.
The lease lands we had, were privately held by the way.
From his website:
When Boone Pickens was 12, his father bought him a .22 rifle and taught him to shoot. His hometown, Holdenville, Oklahoma, had a natural beauty, rolling hills and placid streams where Pickens would hunt. The pockets of ugliness that early oil drilling pollution left behind there — scarred creeks and dead trees — had a deep impact on him at an early age. When as an adult he became a significant landowner, he felt a particular responsibility for its proper stewardship.
His Mesa Vista Ranch, in the Canadian River Valley of the Texas Panhandle, is a model for wildlife resource management. The 68,000-acre ranch would be odd shaped to a cattleman, but then cattle don’t roam there. Noted Texas outdoor writer Ray Sasser has called Mesa Vista "a Wild West equivalent of a southern gentlemen’s hunting plantation.”
Prior to Pickens’ first land purchase in 1971, the rolling hills, bluffs and creek beds there suffered from consistent overgrazing. The legendary entrepreneur immediately began a multi-step program to help the land recover, over time investing about millions in overall wildlife management strategies and facilities, installing substantial water sources, feed plots and native grass replanting, and power infrastructure.
"The most promising horses can be cut out and broke to ride, and possible sold to homes, or used to ride to manage the herd."
These horses were already caught and up for adoption. Nobody wanted them. Hell there are already prison programs in place, green breaking mustangs, and they are struggling trying to find homes for the horses.
This does not address the actual problem of these horses reproducing in the wild and the numbers having to be managed.
I agree with Scorpio and Bay Horse, I doubt the government had the horses' best interest in mind when they came up with the BLM stuff
I've been to the Mustang Sanctuary in South Dakota and I had mixed feelings about the place. I think it is great to have an open space for these horses but I don't like the fact that they breed more of them. Why not geld and then rescue more when space opens up?
So is he going to let the horses roam his ranch, and overgraze it? Is he going to let a non native species compete with his wild life sanctuary at his ranch?
Wouldnt it just be simpler to quit spending money rounding them up and feeding them, instead put the money in tranq darts and gelding for the studs? Start a roundup type thing each year where all the studs that can be found of any age are gelded. Some will always get away or hide well enough to escape gelding but pretty soon, population will drop drastically, a stud can only cover so many mares a year.
If she's throwing money around, I'm always willing to accept assistance with my horse-habit, especially since I lost my second job.
kuvaszfan
We dont know what they are going to do because we haven't seen their plan. That is why I am reserving judgment until then. I think, however, given their past record in this sort of area, they will approach the issue sensibly. And they will probably do a better job than the moron bureaucrats in washington.
No, adopting them and letting them loose isn't the answer. Obviously there needs to be some effort in sterilizing. The Pickens already own an insane amount of land. Buying the proper amount of land for those mustangs and fencing it off is chump change for them. I think it's a much better fate than standing in holding pens awaiting their turn for a ride to some Mexican slaughterhouse, which is exactly what will hapeen if they aren't adopted after 3 attempts.
Equestrian054:
The description that you posted about Mr. Pickens shows that he knows how to manage.
And I doubt that a man of his intelligence would just say, okay honey, you just good ahead and adopt all of those pretty ponies.
Really? You complain about slaughter then complain about a rescue operation. if they are billionaires, why can't they afford to care for the horses?
I generally LOVE your blog, but I completely disagree about this.
OT: Check out this really nice TB on St. Louis craigslist. I never see horses this lovely on our local craigslist.
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/grd/924133297.html
Might be a good prospect for someone.
Who said the horses were to graze on his ranch land? They obviously aren't or else Mrs. Pickens wouldn't be looking for suitable land for 30k horses right now.
I'm reading about his Mesa Vista Ranch, and it's by no means a "natural" environment. He has created a place to support his love for quail hunting, by creating irrigated feed circles, building lakes and so on.
He has set up a hunting preserve, specifically geared to quail hunting.
They. Are. Not. Wild. Horses.
They are feral, mostly of poor conformation, and dubious breeding.
They do not "belong" on the western range. They are not native.
They contribute to erosion and eat food that native species need.
They should be rounded up, the majority of the stallions gelded and the poorer quality mares removed. What is left should be allowed to return and each year the foals should be rounded up and adopted out. Improving the genetics may help improve the adoption rate. If they are managed and can produce a more desirable horse, they may find homes more easily.
It is a touchy subject, Americans have come to see them as a symbol of freedom and are very resistant to the idea that they need to be managed.
There is a similar issue with the feral horses in Australia, where they are seen more as a pest species than a symbol of freedom.
"We dont know what they are going to do because we haven't seen their plan."
No, we don't know. But there are only so many options, for 30,000 horses.
The guys that get the contracts from the blm are making bank. They get paid to catch, feed and house. It may have started as a good idea, but it has gone terribly wrong. I don't think any blm stallion should be adoptable unless gelded. If you adopt a dog from the pound it has to be spayed or neutered. So, why not the horses.
It would be far less expensive to geld those stallions in the field.
kuvaszfan
and how do you know that euthanasia isnt one of those options?
I'm not a 100% sure how the lady is going to care for them, or even what the hell she'll do with them although her heart is right in the right place, I hope she can get her head and her money there too. I don't think she understands how caring for a few let alone 30,000 is going to impact her!!!
www.ihateyourhorse.blogspot.com
I live in the Reno, NV area and have first hand experience with many of these horses. I used to board 8 miles from the Palomino Valley holding corrals and would frequently go out there and look at the horses available. I have a friend who has worked there for the past 6 years. I have seen many herds on the range while out riding, I have seen the carcasses of those that didn't make it on the range. You can just drive to Mustang, NV to the landfill and look at the 20-30 horses that hang out around the dump.
These horses aren't wild, they are feral. Nearly all of the horses the BLM manages are descendents of what were once tame parents. Many have been inbred for generations. Most of the horses look like they would not stay sound for long-term use. Most of the horses are less than 15 hands, quite a few are less than 14.
The BLM doesn't WANT to manage these herds. This from first-hand conversations with several different BLM officials. They wish there was someone else to do that job, but no other government agency is stepping up to take that over, and this is the first of a private sector willing to put their money where there mouth is. The cattle ranchers PAY for the grazing rights on the land. Let me say that again, the Cattle people PAY - so of course the BLM is going to pander to something that *gasp* is a BENEFIT to the taxpayers, rather than an expense.
Personally, I feel that there needs to be further practices in place for sterilzation of the herds. Gelding the colts helps some, but it only takes one stallion to get many mares pregnant. More research for a safe and viable alternative for sterilization of the female population is in order. Euthanizing the old, rank, lame, or crippled horses is the kindest thing to do.
For now, when these horses are skinny, underfed, lame or hurt, people can turn a blind eye or claim "Oh that's natures way." Is that going to be way happens with the Pickens herd? At that point, how are they any better or worse than any other hoarder or bad rescue who leaves the horses to fend for themselves?
Don't know if it's been mentioned and don't have time to read all the coments, but on the
Jurga Report, (third article down), this morning there's a link to a horse survey about the current problem of unwanted horses. Maybe we should all go fill it out. Takes about 15 minutes.
"They obviously aren't or else Mrs. Pickens wouldn't be looking for suitable land for 30k horses right now."
How much suitable ranch land (without a current wild horse population already on it) is still out there, available?
How will these 30,000 horses impact the native wildlife, on the ranges that they will be released on?
What is going to happen with the addtl. horses caught from the wild herds (numbering an estimated 30,000 head) every year, that still can't find adoptive homes?
Just to add (and edited), I think the sterilization, selective euthanasia and putting a reduced herd back out on public lands is a much better idea. Nature will select who survives and it will cut down on some of the basic care costs. We should treat these horses as unadoptable at this time.
They are against any euthanasia- it was stated in the article.
"equestrian054 said...
kuvaszfan
and how do you know that euthanasia isnt one of those options?"
If BLM would euth these horses (that they are currently in control off and paying to have taken care of, at tax payers expense), they would be curcified.
If she did it, what, that would make her the hero?
kuvaszfan
It would make her a hero in my eyes. I'm not part of the population that thinks euthanasia is the worst possible option.
should read "crucified".
So why don't we give the BLM the go ahead, to euthanize the horses?
They already have them in their corrals.
Why not let the BLM euthanize any unadoptable mustangs, instead of forcing them to live in horrid conditions?
Her adopting these horses does nothing to solve the ongoing problem of mustang's overpopulation.
kuvaszfan
I agree with you. I think the problem with having the government carry out the euthanasia is that they have to answer to the public. A private citizen, however, can do whatever the hell she wants with her private property. And I really hope that Mrs. Pickens will do the right thing for these horses.
Also, I just re-read the article and I dont see anything about Madeleine Pickens being opposed to euthanasia as someone else suggested. Am I missing something?
That's right, the mustangs might suffer or die, so Let's Kill Them First! Brilliant! You know your philosphy has been corrupted when it is leading you to conclusions like this. If you cannot spare these animals any POTENTIAL pain - (which may or may not happen), then you need to kill them first. You've come full circle, you've BECOME what you hate....How the hell do you go from rescuing horses to outright killing them yourself?
CharlesCityCat said...
Personally, I plan to wait and see what Mrs. Pickens plan is before I make any judgements as to whether this is good or bad. I am willing, at this point, to give her the benefit of the doubt
======
Me too. These are not stupid people and they do have the money to swing something of this magnitude if they go about it correctly. They've been involved with horse issues before, hopefully they have a little knowledge on the subject. I understand the 'why' of Mrs. Pickens decision, I just hope we see the 'how' from her very soon, in the form of a plan with measureable steps.
=======
Rather than spend millions of dollars trying to "save" these wild horses why not use that money lobbying for common sense? That kind of money could do a lot in the hands of the right people.
=============
While I do understand this statement somewhat it still bothers me. Nobody has the right to tell anyone else how to spend their money. If I'm a millionaire and I want to spend it stupidly that's my perogative. Would you like it if someone else told you how to spend your money?
Why I *hate* people and the government even more for not crucifying the bastards:
Cat killers plead
to lesser charge
CAMROSE
A case that galvanized animal
welfare advocates across Canada
came to a close Monday when two
teenage boys accused of using a
microwave to kill a neighbour’s cat
in Camrose pleaded guilty to the
lesser charge of break and enter.
The two youths were among a
group of young people who broke
into a home while the owners were
away and, over the course of two
nights, caused at least $10,000 in
damage.
During the incident, the family’s
pet cat, Princess, was put in the
microwave and killed, screaming
for 10 minutes while she died.
Guilty pleas from
horse owners
VEGREVILLE
Two men accused of allowing
more than 25 horses to starve to
death at a farm near Andrew, Alta.,
have pleaded guilty to allowing the
animals to be in distress and
failure to provide duties of care.
The men did not appear in the
Vegreville court Monday — their
lawyer said they have received a lot
of hate mail and even death
threats.
Axel Hinz-Schleuter and Dale
Huber were originally charged with
12 counts under the Animal
Protection Act of allowing animals
to be in distress and failing to
provide duties of care.
They pleaded guilty to one count
and the other 11 charges were
withdrawn by the Crown.
What in the world does one do with 30,000 horses? I certainly hope she has a plan.
On the other hand, I just wanted to point out she's not unfamiliar with horses. T. Boone Pickens is her second husband. If you have ever followed racing, you may be familiar with her under the name of her first husband, Allen Paulson, who bred and raced Cigar and Arazi among others. She has bred and raced horses in her own name as well, campaigned against slaughter, and paid for repurchasing and shipping Fraise, whom she bred, from stud duty in Japan to retirement in Kentucky. She has barrels full of money and an interest in equine causes.
On the other hand, thirty thousand mustangs...
It'll be interesting.
swa:
Exactly, They aren't stupid people and I don't think they live in La-La Land (that's me).
I would think that they are doing everything they can to make sure this is done properly, and I also imagine that they have contacts all over the place to help them come up with a viable plan.
I have an idea:
Why don't they replace the herd stallions with black and white, hairy gypsy monsters???? then they can sell the offspring for thousands!!!! Let's see how quickly the round up would get adopted out!
hehehehe
But seriously, if they'd just improve the herds to a decent horse size, they migh find more adopters. Most of these mustangs are too small to be ridden by adults. Unless of course, you are an anorexic dwarf. :P
I also agree that there is some serious mismanagement going on here. I read the article and why is the government paying $300 a ton for hay when they can get it so much cheaper from other areas of the country. Hay is HALF that here. Maybe we don't have enough in this area to make a big dent in the costs of maintaining these horses, but I still think they could manage the funding better.
so...i was looking at horsetopia (i get a kick out of some of the wanted ads on there)....
here is a wanted ad i found...its hilarious...the girl wants a "male gelding, or a stallion"...the ad made me feel really smart... here it is :
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad350970
enjoy :)
>>For now, when these horses are skinny, underfed, lame or hurt, people can turn a blind eye or claim "Oh that's natures way." Is that going to be way happens with the Pickens herd? At that point, how are they any better or worse than any other hoarder or bad rescue who leaves the horses to fend for themselves?
<<
*BING BING BING* WINNER!
THAT IS MY EXACT QUESTION! I am SO TIRED of hearing mustangs don't need care. WTF. Are they physically different from other equines? OF COURSE THEY NEED CARE. What, they just MAGICALLY start to need care (and you are legally mandated to provide it to them) when you have them on your ranch instead of on the other side of the fence in the "wild?" They may have a lower incidence of things like colic but so does any pasture kept horse. It is just LUDICROUS to me to act like, oh, they're wild, it's perfectly FINE to "let nature take its course" and for them to suffer and, oh we don't say "die," we say there is an "attrition rate."
I don't see any glory and majesty in wild horses running free. I see horses that are likely to suffer and die unpleasantly and at young ages. They'll get eaten by a cougar or die after breaking a leg or starve to death when their teeth get too sharp to grind properly. Am I the only one that fails to see the "romance" in this?
The BLM people that I have spoken to would love to be able to put down the horses that are not adoptable, but they know public sentiment is against it. Sentiment again.
Okay, say I'm Ms. horse, running the range and rustling a living. I'm running along and a good marksman takes me out. Boom. One minute I'm happy, next minute I'm dead.
Next scenario: My herd overgrazes my habitat so I starve or freeze to death, or a predator eats me while I'm still alive. After a couple of day's chase of course....
Or 3rd scenario. Wow, people are sooo sentimental, so I get rounded up and held in a pen for 20 years. Can't maintain my social group, am not free, but I do get lots of feed. I'm too wild to handle safely, so gotta be pushed into a squeeze chute for farrier and meds. I do get used to the people, but life is sooo boring. But hey, nobody has to face reality or see any blood.
The old timers had a philosophy of "take some and leave some" which actually is an artificial "balance of nature" but it works. Management....
I agree with those who have stated that these are not 'wild' animals, but rather feral horses.
Here in the Bay Area we have no feral horses, but plenty of feral cats running around, mostly next to San Francisco Bay. People seem to think their unwanted housecats will do just fine fishing for their livelihood and so dump them off. (hopefully this doesn't happen very often anymore) There is at least 1 group working in conjunction with the local humane society to care for, spay, neuter these cats and try and rescue/foster any kittens that might be born.
One thing to consider (although I bet the cattle ranchers won't care for this idea) is to re-introduce the predators who were NATURALLY in those areas at one time - I'm betting one of the reasons for the population explosion is because of lack of predators. My guess is that allowing wolves, mountain lions etc to do their natural thing and hunt these feral horses would make a sizeable dent in the population.
Meanwhile the powers that be can start gelding the stallions...
No romance, so death? Just because there is a possibility of pain doesn't mean it's right to kill them. Decisions like these are better left to God
>.On the other hand, I just wanted to point out she's not unfamiliar with horses. T. Boone Pickens is her second husband. If you have ever followed racing, you may be familiar with her under the name of her first husband, Allen Paulson, who bred and raced Cigar and Arazi among others.<
Well, I wish she'd save 30,000 Thoroughbreds, then. They are already broke and the ones who aren't physically broken down have an excellent chance of being adopted and not continuing to be a drain on her resources forever.
Snoopsincharge
As an anorexic dwarf, I find that highly offensive. ;)
Kestrel, I agree with you completely on this one.
To me, the bigger question is not what this woman is going to do with "her" 30,000 horses, but what is going to happen with the "wild" mustangs, that are still reproducing and still having at least 5,000 caught every year????
From the article:
"We hope we will find homes for all of these animals before the year is out...."
What planet are these people ON???? BEFORE THE YEAR IS OUT????? Come on! That is NUTS!
Actually, a horse is a pretty tough customer for most predators unless it's young, old, injured, or weak. Horses run faster than cows...so who is going to get eaten by the predator? We have a disaster of a wolf program in my area. There have always been some here, but artificial reintroduction into populated areas is having a backlash. We all used to love our seldom seen wolves. Now most people would shoot one on sight.
Given that we are all such good friends with the Pickens and know all about what they do and do not do with their resources, of course lets go ahead and make judgements.
"We hope we will find homes for all of these animals before the year is out...."
That's why they have been sitting in holding pens for years, because people are just scrambling to adopt them.
Belen, God may make the decision, but he didn't put horses on this continent. We did. I'm sure God is busy enough without having clean up the messes humans make.
Okay, I was thinking of succumbing and responding to the troll. But since you all are doing such a good job of ignoring...I'll restrain myself.
OH Kestrel, you folded. lol
Okay, open season on trolls.
KESTREL: I'm with you on how upsetting the situation is, but in animal rescue you have to know you can't save them all. Killing them based on the notion that it's better than the uncertainty of living is pretty arrogant, not to mention a slippery slope. But don't you see the IRONY of it all? Here you are all animal rescue fanatics, but you want to kill a lot of horses based on a theory.
I Love open Season!
Okay Belen,
I saw the post where you said fugly had done a 180 and had become what she hated. Do you have shit for brains? Think about what she was advocating there. The land will hold only so many. There are sick and crippled in captivity already. They should be put down. Or do you feel quantity of life is more important than quality?
How about birth control and reducing the demand for cattle land by reducing beef demand through vegetarianism?
(although, the majority of poor cattle do live in overcrowded stockyards)
REPOST FROM PREVIOUS POST'S COMMENT SECTION
**CATHY**
This popped up in one of the news searches I get - maybe a good topic for a post? Something constructive we can all do?
A Call for Help: Your Input is Needed in a Nationwide Survey on the Problem of Unwanted Horses
This information will go directly to the Unwanted Horse Coalition.
Please don't get mad at me for saying this:
We all feel very passionately about horses or we wouldn't be here.
There are a couple of spots on the survey for your comments.
The more calm, collected and helpful your comments are, the more credibility your comments will have.
The survey only takes about 10 minutes to complete.
Thanks!
For once Fugly, I have to disagree with you. First of all, it states she is a multi billionaire, and while it may seem like she may not have a plan, maybe she will plan to work with the government as to how to keep placing the horses as needed. I DON"T agree with euthanasia mainly because these horse are a large part of American heritage, they were here before any of us, and WE have caused them to have less and less land and now we would justify killing them off because WE want more land to raise OUR cattle? To make ourselves fat and healthy? And we've also created the problem that there aren't any predators to go after them any more? not working for me. I say bravo to her for stepping forward and hopefully we can continue with adoptions and will have better access to young horses to teach them to accept humans.
horspoor: It is certainly humane to euthanise a sick animal, noone is arguing that point. But to kill animals based on the POSSIBILITY of suffering is just.plain.crazy
I'm not really judging, as much as questioning this decision.
They went public, that gave us information, on which I am basing my questions, my statements.
There are only a set number of options:
adopting them out
keeping them
sending them to slaughter
euthanizing them.
We can discuss these options, we know they have money to support certain options, we know the horse market enough and the background of these horses, to debate certain options.
No, we can't with certainty determine, what they are going to do, but we can discuss the dilemma posed by adopting 30,000 horses.
None of this addresses the problem of the mustangs still roaming wild.
None of this addresses the continured breeding of those mustangs still roaming wild.
None of this addresses the problem of the addtl. (est.) 5,000 mustangs being caught from the wild herds.
"mainly because these horse are a large part of American heritage, they were here before any of us"
How far back are you going with this statement, as they are not native to the US and were early imports.
I have very mixed feelings about this. There are a lot of good questions being asked here. This is a story with more pages left to unfold and I will be interested in seeing what comes to pass.
There are so many horses in need and each of us only has so large a life-boat as has been discussed previously. We each have to choose if, and who we can and are willing to take on. It may be that these folks would not have rescued 33k of some other group/breed of horses. It's their life-boat, they get to decide.
If the public out-cry would have prevented them, wisely or not, from being euthed, then they are at least taking 33k horses out of the adoption pipe (also assuming propagation is appropriately managed).
I think it's also worth considering what kind of care these horses were getting from BLM- The bar may be pretty low. I am not saying I support how BLM has managed the populations but this is how they would have lived if the public had put a stop to the euth plan. Any improvement is an improvement and is perhaps better than having them dumped into the pipe of public adoption to who knows what end.
I really hope we see improvement of how BLM stock and land is managed under a new administration (any new administration).
::sigh::
There are no good answers.
I vote shit for brains.
Belen, these are feral animals that we introduced. That they are overgrazing their area, that there are too many, that the wild is unkind to any domestic species, is fact, not a possibility. Humane euthanasia of excess/sick/wounded/unadoptable animals is part of animal welfare, it is the responsible thing to do for the animals, not a slippery slope.
I hope you merely misspoke or don't have an understanding of how populations survive, because you sound like The Hoarder of the Week shrieking about AC murdering puppies on their front lawn.
serendipidy: I guess I don't get why it makes any difference if humans are responsible for the overpopulation of mustangs or not. Your solution is to kill them and your justification is that we made them so we need to kill them?!? huh?
A horse is not a symbol. It is a living creature. We either figure out how to manage FERAL animals humanely, or nature will do it for us and it's not a pretty sight. Remember what introducing rats did to the dodo bird....?
What I got from reading this was that she is adopting horses that have been held by the government in holding pens. Were the stallions not gelded during this period?
Let's see . . . maybe we should round up all the excess, free roaming deer in PA, OH (to name a couple of states where I am most familiar with the problem) that are wrecking havoc with farmers crops up there, and hold THEM in pens where they are fed and maintained until someone adopts them.
Or, use a similar control problem with wild horses as they currently do with deer: extend the hunting period and increase the kill limit.
Horses are not wildlife of course; they are feral. That puts them in the same category as feral pigs. Anyone volunteering to round THEM up and take care of them? Trim their little toes and deworm them? Nah - they just have year round open season on them here in TX because they damage crops and pasture, and pose a danger to humans who cross their path.
Any of you ever worked with a "wild" adopted mature horse? A woman near here adopted one and took it to our cutting horse trainer, who also starts horses for trail riding. The woman was a first time horse owner who felt sorry for the wild horse "situation." She was scared to death of the horse even after months of training: WILD was imprinted on her brain--and with good cause. This was the only horse I have ever seen that our farrier could not manage to trim, even using a Scotch hobble. The mare was crazy in confinement and totally unsafe for anyone other than an experienced trainer who was used to rank stock.
The woman finally took her home, and I'll bet the mare has not been touched since that day. It would have been better off harvested off the range for a role in the food chain.
It is one thing to feel guilt and a sense of responsibility for animals that are produced, neglected, and abused by human beings. It is totally another to try to control a wild or feral species. I think the entire Mustang adoption program should be abandoned and replaced by hunting programs. If you are squeamish about hunting them, they can be sedated with needles shot from guns and euthanized for fertilizer, such measures subsidized by the government at much less cost than maintaining them for three years waiting for some fool to adopt them.
We are in a World food crisis, and these animals are exacerbating the problem.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I know my opinion is going to be horrendously unpopular, so I am apologizing up front. I love horses. LOVE them. Love being with, riding, petting, caring for, just seeing them.
I think slaughter should be legal. I think that STRICT, ultra strict, standards should be placed on slaughterhouses. I think they should be watched like vultures.
I think that horse meat should be eaten in the US. There are horses starving to death all across the United States. Being neglected. I feel that it should be legal, and acceptable, to slaughter horses for meat which could go to feed hungry families, or go to food banks.
I truly don't undertand the stigma against it. As long as they're treated humanely, I just don't see becoming part of the food chain as such a horrendous end. Ashes to ashes, etc etc etc. Circle of life.
I just think we Americans are far too anal about this sort of thing, and that causes us to think in ways that defy logic. In my opinion, there really is just nothing wrong with a critter becoming food.
*waits to get slammed*.
(please remember I said I was sorry)
And because I'm sure someone will say it, yes, there's millions of cats/dogs euthanized yearly as well, and while I'm not certain whether I'd support them being used for food, I'd certainly consider it as a viable possibility.
HalfnHafs said...
I think it's also worth considering what kind of care these horses were getting from BLM- The bar may be pretty low.
Considering how the government has been caring for veterans (link), I'm willing to bet the bar was really low.
Sally, brave and sensible! I have signed an organ donor consent form...hell, once I'm dead it's not like I care what happens to the meat! To turn a blind eye is not going to solve the mustang situation. I owned and rode mustangs for a long time, but they weren't the poor weedy inbred creatures I'm seeing today. People are on a kick of "what type of mustang izzat?" genetics, and are not allowing healthy stock in. It's like closing a breed registry with only 3 animals in it. Sooner or later bad genetics show up.
Sally said...
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I know my opinion is going to be horrendously unpopular, so I am apologizing up front. I love horses. LOVE them. Love being with, riding, petting, caring
-----------
Ok Sally,
No slamming, but to make eating horse meat in the U.S. "normal" is really gross.
As a vegetarian I of course find all flesh gross, but I REALLY do not think we should eat our companion animals. So eating our unwanted dogs and cats that you "put on the table" is extremely disgusting.
I had put earlier that I would love to see these 30,000 feral horses used to feed hungry people in third world countries like Africa. I would completely support this.
You know "circle of life"
Approriate for those whos lives really depend on it, those starving in third world countries.
Belen- Do you actually read and comprehend or skip every other word?
It makes a huge difference. The horses are not native. They were put there by us. We have a responsibility to do what we have to in order to maintain the environment they live in and the quality of life for the horses themselves. It's called cleaning up your mess. My solution is euthanizing a portion of the population, sterilize a larger percentage, and my justification is that it will improve the lives of the majority that's left. I know you'd rather they all survive to starve to death, but I'm more for a solution that helps the most and hurts the fewest.
Do you need me to explain again using smaller words?
serendipidy: insults are no substitute for a cohesive argument.
The sick, injured stock DOES need to be Euthanized,thats a terrible way to live. However for the healthy horses, the best of the best wild stallions need to be set aside, like the top 5-10 (or whatever), the rest? Get their Nutter-butters chopped!!! Geldings for one and all!
www.ihateyourhorse.blogspot.com
putmeincharge41day:
I agree with you about companion animals. You just don't eat them. Just because something can be eaten, doesn't mean it should be eaten.
In the US, horses have never been raised as a food product. They have been different than any other type of livestock.
putmeincharge:
Thanks for your input.
It's all a matter of perception. I know that many people WILL think it's gross, particularly *most* fellow horse lovers.
Many others may not feel the same way. Which perspective is correct? IS there a *correct* perspective, or are there just differing ones?
I just feel that it should be considered. Many people in European countries ride, love, AND eat, horses.
I feel they're much more progressive than we are, and not in a bad way.
If this was anyone else, I'd be all upset too, but I guess I'll have to reserve judgment for a bit, because if anyone DOES have enough money and resources to do it right, it'd be the Pickenses.
I wish some of our tax dollars went toward gelding most of the wild stallions instead of warehousing.
The people who are saying "eat them" are nearly as creepy as the people saying "kill them".
insults are no substitute for a cohesive argument.
You're right, and I'm sorry I left them out of my last post.
Douche-nozzle.
putmeinchargefor1day said: "Why not reopen a slughter plant or two in the U.S. and process these horses and let them go to countries where people are starving, like Africa. Why not make them useful????"
GOOD CALL. Or even feed the hungry here in the U.S. Hell, they don't have to KNOW what they're eating, just that they're eating something!
Look, if you can't see that there's no way to save them all, you don't belong in animal rescue. It's no longer "rescue" when you advocate euthanasia as a means of insuring that animals don't suffer. Duh.
I'll amend my earlier comments in so far as- If she is looking to adopt all of them out, I hope she does have the money and a plan on what to do with them if that is unsucessful as I suspect it will be.
If she is expecting congress to pay for their care, to some normal private sector standard, this could also get interesting as has been pointed out. I'm not sure I'm happy about that. I'm paying for my own project horses, I don't really want to pay for hers.
I don't think BLM was in a position to deny her and euth them instead. So, here they are, in her hands. Ta-da! I will wish for a good outcome since I can't do a whole lot more.
Sally, I tend to agree with you, also with mixed feelings. Unfortunately, I don't think the US will go along with the kind of regulation we see in EU that allows slaughter to be managed humanely and effectively e.g. strictly regulating breeding and tracking of medications given to the horses to insure they are safe for human consumption. I also don't like the idea of creating an economic outlet for the morons breeding garbage prolifically. If we open slaughter up again in the US, the market will reward them.
The glut of horses that we are now facing is going to take years and years to deal with even if we stopped breeding badly today. I don't see any happy ending any time soon.
serendipidy: I have an idea...why don't we just kill the PEOPLE? That would solve the problem too.
Cattypex- I really want to believe that the Pickenses thought this through very carefully, have a long-term strategy ready to implement, and are going to do everything in their power to help these horses and the ones still roaming the plains.
But then the cynical side of me says that they probably figure buying the horses' freedom was all the contributing they needed to do, and whatever follows now is someone else's problem.
Belen-
Whoa. Put down the crack pipe and step away from the guns.
Belen,
We have a serious horse over-population problem. What would you propose that we do? Have you ever been to a horse auction? Have you even seen what happens to unbroke and somewhat tame mustangs? People won't even pay $50 for them. They go to slaughter. In fact, most of these horses have already been going to slaughter for years. I would rather have horses being put down then slaughtered. I will never change my mind.
What would you propose we do with the dog and cat population as well? They are killed because nobody wants them just the same. If you have a realistic plan, then I'm sure we would love to hear it and I would be behind it 100%.
If the Picken's pay for these horses care on their own- then it's a moot point. It's their horses to do with as they choose.
Halfnhaf:
Good point!
The Pickens' already own a boatload of land in the west.
I am grateful that she did this, at least it will buy some time to figure out what to do, horses in long time holding, can they live in the wild again ? I think the Wild horse experts and I don't mean the BLM, are going to make some tuff decisions. At least they are not on a truck headed to Mexico and Canada and I think that was the grand plan. Wild horses, don't get shots, teeth floated,farrier or anything else our horses get. Most of them should be put back where they came from and hopefully not interfered with again.
Andrea said...
putmeinchargefor1day said: "Why not reopen a slughter plant or two in the U.S. and process these horses and let them go to countries where people are starving, like Africa. Why not make them useful????"
GOOD CALL. Or even feed the hungry here in the U.S. Hell, they don't have to KNOW what they're eating, just that they're eating something!
-------------
True story Andrea.
I never thought I would say anything like I did above.
I have been an animal person my whole life, did YEARS of rescuing from the local KB.
It just seems like the right thing to do both for the horses and the humans.
I think Cathy said too that it would make way more sense to rescue 30,000 TBs or any horse that could more easily than not move on to another home.
I agree with that 100%
"Oh yeah, but that's management. Can't have that because the people that believe meat comes wrapped in plastic and milk comes in a box get their panties in a bunch."
NOOOO kidding... my mother-in-law, who can't stand the idea of raising and butchering a couple of steers on a family farm, got high and mighty with me when I brought up veal farms as one of the yukky things the Amish do for money. She ACTUALLY SAID, "I'm not against veal farms." I've gone round and round with her before on her completely fucked up worldview concerning meat (she looooves to eat calves and lambs, but if you take her to a farm (which she treats like a petting zoo and freaks out over the flies & smells) and make a crack about how she can pick out Easter dinner, she freaks out.)
I eat meat, I don't like factory farming, and I wish our wild horse herds could be managed as well as our wild bison herds.
I am thinking that Mrs. Pickens is savvy enough to have a plan in place. I'm sure they literally own MILLIONS of acres, and can hire plenty of wranglers and vets.
As for their feet, I saw a neat documentary once about mustangs' hooves, and how, even though some of them had feet worn almost to nubs, they were rocksolid sound, with perfect angles.
Serendipity:
It is so hard to not be cynical in this world, that's for sure.
I have heard Mr. Pickens speak on several occaisions and found him to be an intelligent, insightful man who does think long range.
I am willing to hold off on the bashing of his wife's adoption until more facts of what they plan to do are known.
Damn, sometimes something is done the right way.
CharlesCityCat said...
Serendipity:
It is so hard to not be cynical in this world, that's for sure.
I have heard Mr. Pickens speak on several occaisions and found him to be an intelligent, insightful man who does think long range.
I am willing to hold off on the bashing of his wife's adoption until more facts of what they plan to do are known.
Damn, sometimes something is done the right way.
--------------------
Ummm you got me thinking...
So many rich successful men marry intelligent women......
NOT
Wonder if Mrs. Pickens was a brainless bimbo.....
(I have no idea if she is an original wife or a trade up)
I will not instill Mr. Pickens savy upon Mrs. Pickens....
She might just be Slim Pickens in the brain department
Somewhat off topic but CHECK OUT THIS THREAD at MSN Arabian Horse World -
http://groups.msn.com/ArabianHorseWorld/horsietreats.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=41965&LastModified=4675698669843943408&all_topics=1
the first post says it all with lots and lots of commas:
"hell ,I can't even sell a horse I don't want,A reg. Arabian mare ;and I am jest asking $1800.--She is worth $4500. 10 yrs.old saddle broken
,neg.coggins,trailer,halter,lead,and stake rope broken,all shots are
given,jest wormed-hooves trim when needed.,15.2 hh-a mare open,vet
check,small dished head,short back ,rose dappled grey,Double FADJUR Bred and great granddaughter of *ALADDINN.[Jest needs a refresher course.in a pasture of 7 acres,has all the hay she can eat,2 gallons of horse pellets every day-has 3 different salt block in stall.So calm and gentle .I live in Louisiana,Columbia. So,I guess I will take her to the sale barn.Lost the lease on my pasture and she stays tied up now."
Later the OP comes back to say that the mare in question is crippled...and that:
"I would even trade her or lease for a black gelding and a black COLT."
Ah I call this Walter Farley syndrome, or Alec Ramsey syndrome.
The thread is a must read in that the OP is blithely ignoring the good advice to have the crippled mare euthanized or donate her to a rescue. Hoo.
Instead of gathering up all these Mustangs why don't we support them like ranchers do for free range cattle privliges? I mean if Ranchers pay 35 cents a head for free range cattle on public land. Why not do the same with our Mustangs? I think the ones that make it out their great! If some starve....that is "wild horses"!
ahem:
http://www.ntra.com/stats_bios.aspx?id=15411
trying to repost the above link as a Tiny URL so it works properly:
http://tinyurl.com/6jjgrk
MYTWOPONIES: I don't have a plan. Seeing the suffering of innocent animals is almost unbearable, but the answer is CERTAINLY NOT to kill perfectly healthy animals. This blog has taken to advocating euth to eliminate even the POSSIBILITY of pain & this is wrong-headed. This is the issue I was addressing.
But she is married to Mr. Pickens who I cannot fathom would just allow her to adopt 30,000 horses as a mere whim, remember, he's the Billionaire.
My aren't we making blanket assumptions about who rich men marry.
OT but check out the "slight" sway back on this mare...
http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/grd/923584989.html
And she does not just need "extra padding" - but perhaps some extra groceries as well...
I agree with fugs - Mrs. Pickens could adopt 30,000 OTTBs instead... seeing as she is already involved in the industry...
putmeinchargefor1day said:
"No slamming, but to make eating horse meat in the U.S. "normal" is really gross."
It's not gross to Europeans. And eating dogs and cats is not gross to Aboriginees (SP) or Philippinos (SP). These are people who do not see horses, dogs and cats as companion animals. They are product, just like cattle, chickens, pigs, and other animals the U.S. eat.
Thinking something is gross doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. That's a pretty lame statement.
And for the record, I'm a vegetarian too. I do not force it on others, however--what other people eat is what other people eat. In fact, at a large dinner the other night, everyone got "the look" when my husband announced I'm a vegetarian. I said EAT EAT EAT, people: I don't eat meat because I love animals too much to eat them. That's my choice, not yours! You can all eat what you want! I'm not going to tell them what to do.
Sally, well said. You don't need to apologize for your beliefs--NONE of us do. What many people should be apologizing for is all talk but no walk--bitching about the problem but not stepping up and adopting a few unwanted, non-useable horses to help solve it.
I also agree with slaughter. The problem I now see is that in this economic crisis, people need money where they can get it, and many have to think of their families and welfare first. I'm lucky that I don't have kids and don't have to feed them first, so I can concentrate on surviving with my husband and our pets. But I'm in the minority. Remember: most people do not think the way us animal lovers do.
That said, we all know that horse owners are feeling the squeeze almost worst than just about anyone else out there. Companies are laying off thousands of people or cutting pay--my husband just go slapped with a paycut last month, YAY, right before the holidays! Therefore, being able to sell a horse to a KB that ships to a slaughterhouse here in the U.S. where killing was somewhat humane was a viable option for many horse owners. They needed to get a little money, and selling the horse is a way to do that. They can't wait for a buyer as they have to sell NOW or they can't pay their electric bill. So they have to have a quick way to get rid of the horse and get some money. With no U.S. slaughterhouses, these horses go to auctions where they are almost guaranteed to end up on the truck to non-regulated slaughterhouses in Mexico and Canada. We have a serious problem in AZ with people letting the horses loose in the desert thinking they'll survive on their own. We have to deal with the fact that many, many people forget about their animals when it comes down to whether or not their house is going to be foreclosed on. We can't force them to think about the fact that they have a horse in the backyard and they MUST provide for it. If they can't, they can't--it's as simple as that. They are NOT going to spend $400+ to euthanize and haul away a dead horse--they just can't afford it. They need a quick option to get rid of it, and I think slaughterhouses provided that.
And for those of you against horse slaughter who say it's inhumane, but you DO eat meat: why is it okay for cattle, pigs, chickens, etc. to go to slaughter and not horses? Why are horses so much better? I have a friend who had a pet steer once. He was a wonderful edition to their farm because he was the companion animal for weaning foals. The neighbors would send the foals to her house to be turned out with the steer (he had no horns). He diciplined them and played with them. He was well trained and even let his hooves be trimmed. She took the time to train him to be a reliable pet. So why is it okay for his brethern (SP) to be sealed to a fate of ending up as a chair or a steak while it's not oaky for a grumpy horse that doesn't get along with other animals or people and has no using value whatsoever other than a pasture ornament?
I agree that horse shipping to slaughterhouses should be more humane. But honestly, a slaughterhouse is a slaughterhouse. When you have a demanding market wanting their Thanksgiving turkeys, not all the turkeys are going to be humanely killed. And to avoid people bitching that meat is too expensive and not buying at all, which will close slaughterhouses and end jobs, they have to cut costs somewhere, and sometimes is not in running a high-tech, "humane" system. Sometimes it's just getting by on the bare minimum the USDA requires to run a slaughterhouse.
I just don't understand it. The U.S. has fucked ourselves in closing down the slaughterhouses--now it's worse than ever because of the economic crisis. For those of you against slaughter and who have not done so already, STAND UP and go adopt some horses that are in the holding pens to go to Mexico or Canada. Don't sit on your asses and bitch--help be a solution to the problem.
I was going to stay away from this, but I can't.
All the talk about how the mustangs should be removed because they are a non-native species is foolish. Guess what? CATTLE are not a native species as they were imported from Europe. So it's really a matter of only wanting animals on grazing lands that will produce $$ for their owners.
With regard to providing vet and farrier care, this is ridiculous. The plan would be to allow these horses to live or die without human intervention.
With regard to using horsemeat to 'feed the poor'. Sure, that'll work. Let's load these people up on bute, steroids, dewormers, etc. All of which are known carcinogens or toxins. Yep, that'll kill two birds with one stone. Good job....
Sort of OT
The two men charged with the neglect and starvation of the 100 horses out by Andrew,AB plead guilty yesterday. Although it was only on one charge, it was still a big step. The defense agrees with the LIFETIME OWNERSHIP BAN for second time offender Axel Hinz- Schuelter and a TEN YEAR OWNERSHIP BAN for first time offender Dale Huber.
The judge has yet to place a sentence as he wishes to take the time to review pictures and documentation. The maxiumum sentence that each man could face is a $20,000 fine.
To see the news stories on this topic visit http://www.edmonton.ctv.ca
There are two stories there, one regarding the trial and the other talking about the horses and some of the healing stories. The second one brought tears to my eyes.
I'm thinking that they have a plan.
I'm thinking that they've been hashing it out for awhile, how to swing it.
I'm thinking they're also too PR savvy to screw it up.
I'm thinking they know horses.
I'm thinking this will probably turn out OK.
I'm thinking that you don't become a bajillionaire by failing to comprehend the value of planning and backup planning.
My only argument with this is as follows:
If the BLM can't (or won't) afford to take care of the horses already in their care, why are they rounding them up? And why are they exterminating herds? It doesn't make any sense.
My response:
Kill the cattle farmers and let the horses roam. Nature will have her course. You don't need to manage wild horse herds; they'll manage themselves. If there's not enough food, the hard keepers will die. Survival of the fittest. And if you can't stomach that, go live in New York, Seattle, Or LA, where you don't need to worry about it. It's nature. It's natural.
And I'm sorry, but euthanizing 2000 horses? COME ON PEOPLE. If we though common sense was lacking OUTSIDE of gov't circles...Look where people are getting their advice from!! Common sense says QUIT HARVESTING HORSES IF YOU CAN'T OR WON'T FEED THEM!!!!!!
And the whole PR thing...PUH-LEASE. You'll get better PR for saying "Well, nature will have her way. And we couldn't afford to take care of the horses if we tried. It's starvation in their homes, or death in our fields" than for saying "We can't afford to take care of the horses we've already rounded up. So we're killing them."
putmeinchargefor1day said:
"I think Cathy said too that it would make way more sense to rescue 30,000 TBs or any horse that could more easily than not move on to another home.
I agree with that 100%"
ME TOO. I know of hundreds of formerly sored TWHs standing in pastures in TN and KY needing new homes. If I could rescue them all, rehabilitate them and make them in to awesome using horses, I would do it in a heartbeat.
I've always heard that wild mustangs usually don't live past the age of six. By giving our domestic horses proper care, they usually live to about 30 and sometimes beyond. I'd say that is a pretty good trade off for the horse to gain 24 year's of life out of the deal!!!
flying fig said:
"OT but check out the "slight" sway back on this mare..."
HOLY SHIT. That is awful. She probably has vertebrae rubbing against each other. Yeah, I'll trade my perfectly rideable, healthy horse for that poor thing who really needs to see a wide open pasture with plenty of grazing for the rest of her days and no more riding!
This is so typical. People form such solid opinions without bothering with the facts. Most of the comments here are so OFF too.
Most of the long term holding restricts these horses to paddocks and as such they need semi regular farrier care. The BLM has a system of squeeze chutes or stocks that allows them to put a horse on it's side. They tranquilize, geld, treat wounds, and trim feet in the squeeze. Many of the horses in long term holding are old for wild horses- anything over age 10 that is rounded up I believe goes straight to long term holding.
The BLM does use contraceptive implants but like most government programs, there isn't enough money to go around for all needs. If they can empty long term holding, there is lots of money left over for the contraceptive program. The BLM also catches, brands, and releases exceptional stud horses.
You can't get a job at the BLM unless you have at least a masters degree so they aren't idiots. Even though they prove my theory that the highly educated aren't guaranteed a lick of common sense...
As a mustang advocate I was, and still am for the euthanasia of horses in long term holding. Starting with horses over age five as they are harder to tame down-especially the mares.
If Mrs. Pickens wants to spend her private money to take them on and manage them, then great. I am guessing that if we inherit them upon her death, we will likely also inherit a WORKING wild horse management program too.
If she decides to cull them then that is great too. At least it will be a private person culling their private herd vs. the government culling the people's herd. The people no longer have any right to their self righteous indignation. Whether you are for it or against it, it's no longer any of your business. At least as long as no one is breaking the law.
We are all responsible for society's messes with animal overpopulation. In most cases, the government agencies tasked with handling the problem are not funded well enough to actually function as they are supposed to. Without private citizens who pitch in with their own capital to help by rescuing in whatever scale they are able to, there would be alot more suffering than there already is.
Let's allow the lady to succeed or fail at whatever her chosen endeavors are before being so bloodthirsty. She might just have broad enough shoulders to carry whatever she wants to.
If she causes suffering, I'll be happy to grab my pitchfork but until then I'll just wait and see.
Good Girl Cattypex!
That is so awful! That poor poor mare. I wouldn't get ON a horse w/ even a slight sway back.
And borderbratz!
JoyceM said...
With regard to using horsemeat to 'feed the poor'. Sure, that'll work. Let's load these people up on bute, steroids, dewormers, etc. All of which are known carcinogens or toxins. Yep, that'll kill two birds with one stone. Good job....
-----------
Joyce, take the aerosol inhalent away from your nose...
people who can not afford to feed their horses are giving them steroids, de-worming and buting them....of course they are.........
Oh but wait we WERE talking about MUSTANGS.
Did I miss where the BLM is giving them all those drugs?
Of course Cattle are never given anything like that......
cattypex said:
"I'm thinking that you don't become a bajillionaire by failing to comprehend the value of planning and backup planning."
I agree wholeheartedly. I believe she probably didn't do this on a whim. I know several millionaires, and believe me, they have their millions BECAUSE they thought out every little bit before they invested their money and they absolutely KNEW they would return a sizeable profit.
That being said, I'm not sure why Pickens chose mustangs, which do NOT return a sizeable profit. I agree with Fugs and other posters here: why not rescue 30K OTTBs or another breed that has a turnaround profit? I would imagine that bia llionaire isn't going to want to waste their money, and choosing a profitable breed would be the way to go.
Hmm...I'm with a lot of you. Let's see what she does before making any judgement calls. Sure, there is the possibility that she will screw this up further than it already has been but the whole system has been screwed up for years and years.
Honestly, I don't understand why the majority of them have not been gelded.
About the euth. issue; I personally believe that those suffering in the herds ought to be put down. I think that euthunizing animals is just as much apart of rescuing as feeding and caring. I once volunteered for a no-kill shelter and have regretted it ever since. There were so many unhappy animals in that shelter who were NEVER going to be adopted due to behavioral issues, age, etc. I wish I could have adopted them all but even that would have been irresponsible as I could not have cared for them all properly. Rescuing animals is not all rainbows and butterflies, sometimes tough decisions need to be made.
I think what this lady did was great. She has billions of dollars and if she wants to buy 30,000 horses with it fine. What I am curious about though is will she geld the stallions so they can live out their lives and not create more babies?
On the topic of care, they are wild. They live in the wild with no hoof or vet care so why, if she buys them and just lets them go on a huge enclosed piece of property that she has bought, would she have to provide hoof and vet care? I see nothing wrong with her purchasing the horses, gelding the stallions and any offspring that the mares may be carrying now (when they are born obviously), buying a giant section of land (it's not like she doesn't have the money), and letting them live their lives. They won't be able to reproduce and increase the population and they won't be able to live forever. Give them food and water and let them live like wild horses.
The only way I would see a problem is if the stallions were not gelded and were allowed to add to her captive population. If that is allowed the entire plan was a failure in my opinion.
I have no problem with euthanasia but if you can get around it why not? All of the funds that were going to be used to euthanize these 30,000 horses should be put towards euthanizing all of the old, crippled and unwanted horses who are going to slaughter.
Maybe they aren't in it for the money. And it isn't for any of us to decide how and where they spend their money. There could be a special reason that this cause is important to them.
Borderbratz,
I have HUGE problems with what you just said.
If you were a long time, and are, a wild horse advocate, you'll have seen footage of roundups and holding pens right?
Horses getting trampled, studs being rounded up TOGETHER, babies getting trampled.
And they don't release the "high quality" studs. They release the horses that won't sell.
As for horses over age 5, I completely disagree with that assumption. They may be harder to train occasionally, but as we all know, they catch on quickly. They're past the age of acting like idiots and panicking at nothing. Take them in a paddock, feed them a couple of times a day, hang out. Baby steps. And voila, a horse unafraid of humans.
Horses on the public ranges WILL approach people. Especially if they've been exposed, as many of them have, from an early age to campers on the range. I've been there and done that. The BLM ranges admit it freely.
If you've spent any time around horses, you'll know that a horse raised without manners can be MORE dangerous and hard to train than a 5-7 year old mustang.
And about long term holding:
Don't round up horses just to hold them. Good solution, don't you think? If they're over 10, let them go. Let them live the life they're accustomed to and die the way they were made to die. In the wild.
Oh, and if you want proof of their "breeding" program, go look at some of the pictures snapped of range horses. They're conformational DISASTERS.
charlescitycat, that is true. I just mean that in my experience, billionaires don't just throw money away without it having some kind of benefit for them attached, such as tax exemption or something like that. That's all I meant. :)
Belen said..."I don't have a plan. Seeing the suffering of innocent animals is almost unbearable, but the answer is CERTAINLY NOT to kill perfectly healthy animals. This blog has taken to advocating euth to eliminate even the POSSIBILITY of pain & this is wrong-headed. This is the issue I was addressing."
Does that include the millions of dogs and cats?
Without a plan it's easy to cry foul and decry others for trying to find solutions that don't fit into the rainbow and farting flying pegasus unicorn land mentality, where no animal ever has to suffer, where all animals have loving owners and where there are no hard decisions to be made.
In the meantime, people are struggling to make the day to day decisions for animals, that live in cages, no chance of ever finding a home, being warehoused.
So you'd rather close your eyes to the problem, because it's unbearable, let others shoulder the burden of making the hard choices, and then condemn them?
EDIT:
As for horses over age 5, I completely disagree with that assumption. They may be harder to train occasionally, but as we all know, they catch on quickly. They're past the age of acting like idiots and panicking at nothing. Take them in a paddock, feed them a couple of times a day, hang out. Baby steps. And voila, a horse unafraid of humans.
I know I simplified the process to a fault, but if get the gist of what I'm saying, that won't matter.
animageofgrace said: "Call me crazy but wouldn't it make more sense to have enough land ready BEFORE purchasing 30,000 (or even 100) horses?
Maybe they can run free in between T.Boone's windmills?"
Dang, that was funny. I laughed out loud in my office. Run free, wild horses! Just steer clear of the windmills!
But seriously... this adopting 30,000 horses thing is a little nutty.
On a happier note--I rode with the wild horses in Utah once a few years ago. That was pretty cool. I don't know what they were eating, but they looked pretty fat and sassy. We went in the spring and there were new foals all over--fun to see them. Of course, our horses all started feeling as though they should be one with the wild horses, so we ended up galloping all over the place. Good times, that. Good times.
Kuvasz:
Does that include the millions of dogs and cats?
Without a plan it's easy to cry foul and decry others for trying to find solutions that don't fit into the rainbow and farting flying pegasus unicorn land mentality, where no animal ever has to suffer, where all animals have loving owners and where there are no hard decisions to be made.
In the meantime, people are struggling to make the day to day decisions for animals, that live in cages, no chance of ever finding a home, being warehoused.
So you'd rather close your eyes to the problem, because it's unbearable, let others shoulder the burden of making the hard choices, and then condemn them?
I couldn't agree more. Until we find a better solution, this is all we have. To offer these poor innocent animals a painless death.
Andrea said. . . "I agree with Fugs and other posters here: why not rescue 30K OTTBs or another breed that has a turnaround profit?"
I guess if you are that rich who really cares if what you do returns a profit. Maybe she just wanted to do this and this is what she felt would help the situation so she didn't care of it was for profit. I don't know her history of money, but maybe she married into money and so she has no motivation to make a profit. As I'm sure most people here know, not everything is done with an ulterior motive of making money, sometimes you just feel like it is the right thing to do.
brittany said:
"As for horses over age 5, I completely disagree with that assumption. They may be harder to train occasionally, but as we all know, they catch on quickly. They're past the age of acting like idiots and panicking at nothing."
And I completely disagree with your assumption. My sister-in-law owned a gelding who wasn't started under saddle or even HANDLED until he was 6 years old. That horse was a NUTCASE. He was so set in his ways of never being handled and being used to being a pasture ornament that his brain would literally shut off if things went bad, and he'd take off running and smash her into fences. I don't know how many times she walked home because the horse had dumped her somewhere. And of course he was at home when she got there, happy as a clam because he wasn't being ridden anymore.
I have also experienced similar problems with horses that get started over the age of five, my own mare being one. A horse at that age can be very set in their ways and you have missed that crutial learning period that young horses have. It's kinda like how scientific study has shown us that adult humans have a much harder time learning a new language than children do. We just aren't building the new synapses in our brains anymore to do the work required to learn something so complex. Unless the horse is naturally a very quiet horse, you can end up with a very stubborn mount at the very least.
No matter who owns the land, wherever these horses are moved to, they will have a major impact on the land.
These are 30,000 mustangs, the same number that still roams wild on a number of different ranges.
These are 120,000 hooves, anyone with a horse knows, what those do to the ground.
What is the plan for the addtl. horses, that will be caught off the range and brought to holding facilities?
The horse market is tanking, that will not make adopting some wild mustang any easier.
"BELEN said...
MYTWOPONIES: I don't have a plan"
So how can you criticize any plan when you have no idea or any thoughts as to how to solve it?
Again, what shall we do with all of the unwanted dogs & cats as well?
When I was fifteen I probably would have agreed with you Belen as I once thought like that. I was totally against euthanization of animals; I despised the SPCA. I purposely went to a no-kill shelter to volunteer (which was an hr. and 45min drive away from where I lived). Boy, was I wrong. If you think being caged up all day with very little space to move and no human companionship for the REST OF YOUR LIFE is more ideal than being put humanely down...well than I will just have to agree to disagree with you there.
Yes, Andrea, but these horses lived in a pasture until 5, having near-daily contact with people! These mustangs only know that people would come visit them on THEIR terms, and then that people rounded them up, did VILE things to them, and loaded them up in a trailer.
That's it!
So there's a HUGE flaw in your argument. The horses you speak of grew up around people who asked of them absolutely nothing. These WILD horses haven't grown up around people, except the glimpses and small visits that allowed them to set the terms.
GoLightly- We ALL have some pent up frustration now don't we?? ;)
www.ihateyourhorse.blogspot.com
ugly-horse-owner said:
"I guess if you are that rich who really cares if what you do returns a profit."
No, they DO care whether or not it returns a profit. In order for someone to STAY rich, they have to continue to make money. People who are rich don't stay rich by spending millions on usless projects. Believe me, I know several millionaires, and they are ALL about saving money where they can. They wouldn't be millionaires if they didn't. Sure, they can build an amazing 8000 sq ft house, but they will go out for bids and will find reasonable prices for what they want to get done. I know one guy who wanted a Ford F-350 king cab with all the bells and whistles. It was a $60K truck, but he made friends with a supplier and got the truck for only $48K. That's a huge savings for him.
BUT, your point about the fact that she may be doing this out of the goodness of her heart is good, and I do believe it's highly possible. We just don't know as we're not given all the facts in this article, including whether or not they have a plan.
LOL! Mustangs vs. OTTBs
OK. I have 2 mustangs and 1 thoroughbred and the mustangs are easier to work with. My TB is so bold and "in your face" that there are days I'd like to set him free...in the desert...
30,000 OTTBs would bankrupt a bajillionare rescue project just on foot care because if you turned them out on 600,000 acres (without shoes every 10 weeks) all their feet would fall off.
brittany,
"So there's a HUGE flaw in your argument. The horses you speak of grew up around people who asked of them absolutely nothing."
UM, NO, they didn't. These were horses that live on gigantic 100+ acre pastures in Tennessee. The stallions were tossed out into the fields with the mares, and whoever got bred got bred--the DNA tests for registration would sort out who was bred to who later. The owners very rarely saw the horses and would only round them up to separate colts from mares and fillies and to take select horses to sales. This is typical how TWH owners "manage" their breeding barns in TN.
The gelding my sister had was never rounded up and sent to sales only because he was ugly. Eventually the owner had to get out of all his horses, so the horse did end up at a sale.
Thanks for assuming stuff you don't know, though. You just proved a very high level of ignorance.
I only have a few things to say since everyone else has basically said in parcels what I would have.
We had a mustang, that was born in captivity and his hooves hardly ever needed trimming and were hard as rocks. The ferrier loved us because we basically paid him for doing nothing. I would feel save to bet that mustangs not born in captivity would fare well without regularly scheduled ferrier services.
I'm with those who say m/billionaires are that way for a reason. They don't wrecklessly throw money around without great planning first.
I'm also with those who say it's her money, let her decide what she's spending it on. If you have the money, put it forth and then you too can decide the fate of other things whether some people like it or not. I am happy she's going to try. If they end up being euthenized, then their fate was nothing different than it was with BLM. No harm no foul.
I am with those that want the catch/fix/release and let the herd thin themselves out. Yes they will need care in the meantime. Can we add to that maybe rounding up just the yearling and start the training at an early age so that we don't have the wild and crazy adults. Or not as many any how. Then they can selectively keep the nice ones if they want to keep wild herds. I'd hate to see the herds totally extinct.
As for eating? My personal thought is ewwwww. But I also don't eat caviar and squid and a bunch of other things some other people will eat. I think the whole companion thing is what gets me. They can think and are trainable unlike many of the other things people have mentioned. But that's not for me to debate.
The person that helped with the closing of the slaughterhouses is now making an attempt to do something for the overabundance of one breed of horses. I give a thanks to her. You can't do it all, but they are doing more than some. As to the rest and why they can't do a different breed, the people in those industries should be stepping up like in some ways it kind of sounds like they are starting to do.
I'm sure there's more, but I said I'd try to keep it short.
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