Sorry about the delay on this post but I discovered it was very, very hard to find side conformation pictures of horses in bad condition. Rescues seem to have a fondness for the 3/4 from the front shot and that doesn't work for this blog. My own rescues have all been to conformation what Lindsey Lohan is to sobriety, so I couldn't pull from my own photo collection. :-)
Several people have tried to explain away this blog by saying that I like horses who are in good condition and and the horses I criticize aren't really bad, they're just victims of poor condition/grooming. So today we are going to look at horses in good condition with bad conformation and in bad condition with good conformation. This is a useful lesson if horse shopping is in your future. Look at structure - not condition - and you will bring home a bargain.
The good condition/bad structure pair first.
You can't criticize the owners of this TB mare for not feeding her. She looks great. Maybe even be a bit too heavy. They stood her up square in front, one leg back and did their best to show her off. However, what they have shown off includes an unattractive totally unfeminine head with a pig eye, a short neck, and an unusually muttony pair of withers on a TB (might be better with less weight, but still, that mare's conformation is destined to land a careless rider in the dirt if they don't have their girth tight enough). She is over at the knee. I am still trying to find her shoulder to critique it...there is no definition there. She has a short croup, not terrible, but not ideal. Her tail obscures her hocks but I suspect she's quite straight even if she's not standing that way. She isn't an awful mare, but she's not a breeding quality mare, and unfortunately that's exactly what she's been doing. AND you can buy her with a breeding to either a homozygous black Arabian or a 17.3hh Dutch/TB-Clydesdale stallion. Good grief. Can you imagine a Clydesdale cross on this mare? May as well order the supersized halter and bridle in advance and you might need a sling to hold up the head of the baby until his body grows big enough to support it!
I would love to believe this AQHA stallion was standing on a huge slope, and I do believe he's standing on a bit of a downgrade...but not nearly enough to explain the position of his hip in relation to his shoulder. A classic FrankenHorse, his hind end seems to have been removed from an entirely different horse and attached to his incredibly weak loin. His pasterns are painfully upright and his shoulder is nearly vertical. He's sickle hocked and stands like he's in pain. (I bet his back hurts. Doesn't it look like it would be sore?) He's in good condition - a bit ribby but reasonable for a teenage stallion at the end of breeding season, his coat is beautiful and he's got a gorgeous tail and a cute head. Again, you can't fault these people for their horse care - but you can beat them over the head about the fact that this creature still has his testicles! Now, the horses I like that are in terrible condition.

This old girl is 30 and she looks every minute of it. However, I would bet money this is a very well bred mare and that she was a hell of a horse in her day. She is very deep through the heart and I will bet she could run like the wind. Although her tail is high, the hip itself is long and powerful in appearance. She has an elegant neck, her front legs are still straight and her pastern angle is ideal. Those back legs look like they have been through a war and she is standing as though they barely hold her up, which I will bet is the case. She is definitely standing "funky" - that is not her hind end conformation but an attempt to keep her hind legs underneath her enough to hold her up. She's very thin and she's swaybacked but at her age that's not even an issue. It looks to me like she is someone's old broodmare (who was good enough to be a broodmare) that someone dropped the ball with. I am pleased to say this mare is in the care of a rescue that is giving her exactly what she needs. With that round bale in front of her, she will be back looking great (for her age) in no time.
Another rescue, this AQHA gelding is very thin but his structure still looks good. That is a textbook perfect shoulder, again we see a nice long hip that just needs 100 lbs. on it, good pasterns, good hock angle, compact frame, slightly upright build, neck set on properly and a cute face with small ears. No, I don't think he's 100% perfectly straight legged but I don't see anything there that would impair normal use.
All this nice boy needed was good feed, deworming and proper care and I am glad to say that he got it. See below.
Bet none of you Quarter Horse fans would kick this one out of your barn. He's a gelding but he's much nicer than many, many pictures I have posted of creatures who are reproducing. By the way, this transformation took one month. And he is over 20 years old, so any of you who truly believe old equals inevitably skinny can stick that moronic belief where the sun don't shine.
I should note that his rescuers are breeders, and the horses on their web site are breeding quality. Their stud is a 26 years old APHA Champion and looks great, still sound, riding and breeding. All of their studs are ridden - by youth riders. They do not have a bunch of rank, nasty, unbroke pukes reproducing like half of these sites I go to. They get two thumbs up from me.
Link of the day - check out this excellent page on Stopping Irresponsible Breeding. (I don't agree with everything she has to say about auction buying but I do think it's a good guide on auction buying for beginners. Her guidelines would keep you out of trouble, but as a knowledgeable person looking for a rescue, you could go against them and get a diamond in the rough.)








28 comments:
Great examples, FHD! Wow, nice improvement on that AQHA gelding! I agree, he's much nicer than many horses you see being used for breeding. Delay was worth the wait. Thank you!
Great blog. I've been reading with interest but did not comment until now. I just have to say in the defense of the grey TB mare that her front leg fault may not be structural (or her fault). I own a TB broodmare also, and my vet told me that she is over at the knee because of excessively early training for the racetrack. Before I bought her, she had four smashing Oldenburg foals (none of which are over at the knee and all four are by different stallions) and now we plan to use her in our Sportpony program with Welsh Pony stallions.
Keep up the great work!
Ridesobright - you are correct. However this mare is advertised as never having been raced and is very green under saddle, which leads one to believe she has not worked hard and therefore broken down from work. I should have put that in the post.
good to see these regardless of condition!
some others for amusement:
best 'nest' example yet: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=218&ad=1533222&cat=106&lpid= (look at the 2nd picture)
that's it. ride your yearling....
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=389&ssid=1531494&pid=1&rurl=nid,218,ad,1531494,lpid,3,cat,106
aaaaaaaaaand here's the PHOTOS for your previous post:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=1524537&lpid=12&cat=106
http://www.equinehits.com/horses-for-sale/horse-92480
I found this mare two different places. The ad with the picture here is very different from the ones above.
This was a VERY interesting entry, thanks so much. The photos are very telling, except that - an noted - the TB mare might be just a bit too fat to really determine some of her conformation.
Interesting coincidence re: DSLD/ESPA ...
Hardymom mentioned the other ad she saw for the TB mare. I checked it out and found that it was placed by Black Sterling Farms, breeders of Fresians.
Most interestingly, the farm's namesake and imported foundation stallion, Black Sterling himself is a confirmed positive case of DSLD by ultrasound of all four legs at UC Davis in 2005. At one time there was note of it on the website, but I can't find it today.
The Yahoo group DSLD-equine was given permission by Black Sterling's owner to use him in their database of comfirmed cases as well as in the 'case studies' on their web page.
Funny coincidence ...and a terrible shame.
Great post.
I must say I am totally sick of people claiming old=skinny. We have a horse who is nearly 30 on our yard, and he may have arthritis and be going grey with age, but he is no way skinny. We have a couple of other horses in their 20s: only on of those gets noticeably underweight at any time, and that is due to underlying conditions.
Besides, since when is 'over 20' particularly old for a horse? Too many people dismiss horses as too old even before their mid-teens (I have a feeling it goes hand in hand with the mentality that they can be backed as 2-year olds). Our nearly 30 year old is still working as a riding school horse (although not too hard due to arthritis), none of our horses who do regular fast work/jumping are under 15, and my friend has a pony (now retured) that she was still winning jumping classes with at the age of 32.
/age rant
FHOD, thanks for the additional info about the grey mare!
The Sorrel Stallion just screams late 80's early 90's Western Pleasure horse to me. He had the "Ideal" conformation they were looking for back then.
STRAIGHT shoulder so you do not have forward movement from the shoulder.
Upright pasterns so no forward movement and no action up front.
Down hill build so he cannot lift his head.
Long in the back so he can hollow out and lower his mid section That way he can trail his hocks out behind him so he has no impulsion and therefore no forward movement.
Sickle Hocks to that even though the hocks are actually dragging out behind him, the cannon bones and feet appear to be under neath his body so they can say he is "deep behind".
Is it any wonder why people complained that those horses did not stay sound and they could not do ANYTHING else?
I was thinking Black Sterling was a gelding. I know he was back in '05. I didn't realise he was bred.
Learn something new everyday. :)
hackney_wonder ...I think perhaps it is I who learned something today. Although my faulty memory told me that Black Sterling was a stallion; I can't find any reference on their website, nor in the DSLD-equine list archives that says so.
Clearly I musta made it up -wink-
Nice photo of your Hackney. I'll have to get one of my Peruvian so our esteemed blogger can - gulp - check him out...
"Fat hides a multitude of sins"
A quote I heard from a Welsh Pony Breeder
Oh god, fat show welshies...makes me shudder.
Fat just makes me nuts because we all know what it leads to. Founder is one of the worst things that can happen to a horse. I have had to treat several badly foundered horses and it is painful to watch them. Food does not equal love, people.
losvagos:
That's why Black Sterling isn't KFPS Approved. ;)
Oops, posted too soon.
*Black Sterling isn't KFPS approved, nor is he a stallion, so he's not much to worry about anyway.
In fact, none of their stallions are for breeding since they don't have FPS Approval and they would just end up breeding B-Book babies.
Good idea, but I disagree with some fault describes with the first mare. Although not a clean neck, I don't think it's that short. She's balanced. Her neck has a slight dish, is very thoroughbredy and I'm not sure if she actually has a pig eye...
What I disagree with most is over at the knee. Dr. Deb Bennett, foremost conformation expert, says over at the knee is a quality trait for an athlete. It's worse to have a horse straight through the knee. My 3/4ths Tb is over at the knee. Also, it could be a result of feed. Too much protein, such as a high diet of alfalfa or corn, will cause over at the knee.
However, with all that, I'd probably overlook the mare.
also, I'd like to know how old that downhill stallion is...
just as a suggestion, I think this blog should have a dictionary or tutorial to educate beginners. I probably don't need it so much, but this must be like a new language to others.
and error in my first comment, the mare's HEAD has a slight dish and is very thoroughbredy.
The sorrel stallion is in the latter half of his teens, I don't recall exactly but I want to say 16 or 17.
16 or 17?!?!?!!? O.O and he's that downhill?! sometimes reiners are downhill but his back is way too long for that.
Wow, that downhill horse. Makes my back hurt just looking at him. And hooray for the skinny QH! I know from experience how quickly you can make a horse look like new when the only problem is that no one has been feeding the poor thing.
However, I have to join the legion defending the TB mare. Okay, she's chunky for a TB, and short backed, and I agree with the comment about her withers though I think losing some of the weight on her neck might make them look a BIT better. But not much. I also think I see her shoulder (Could be an illusion!) and it doesn't look so bad. She's not HORRIBLY over at the knee, and for some reason she puts me to mind of the chunkier Irish TB's, or the type I see Fox Hunters using a lot. She reminded me of something and I finally figured out what it was...she looks EXACTLY like the picture of Hobgoblin from the Marguerite Henry book The Godolphin Arabian. Right down to that hooded eye and her expression. So I guess she really IS a thoroughbred!
http://www.equinehits.com/horses-for-sale/horse-92480
This ad shows the grey mare in a much better light. I suspect that she was fat and hairy in winter in the original post. in these pictures she is clearly NOT over at the knee, has well-defined withers, and a large, expressive eye. i suspect she was blinking in the picture posted here. she certainly looks like what I would call breeding quality, except that she isn't very proven. nice mover too! guess this just chalks one up to "you can judge any horse harshly based on poor photography?"
oh, THERES her shoulder! And her withers! Hey, I'd have bought her, if I had time to train her...and lived in texas. Please lord don't let them have bred her to one of those stallions though, I mean WHY?
is that the same mare? she's lovely!
Although, like I said, minor over at the knee is not a fault! It's a mark of an athlete -- according to Dr. Deb Bennet. Look her up if you don't know her.
also I think the earlier pic is harder to judge because of her deeper color. Like, I know a GORGEOUS black mare but in pictures she needs a halter for definition -- lighter colors can rely on shadows while darker ones can't.
Oh poor Lego. I know that QH Stallion personally. No, he should of never been a stallion, but of course has a few foals on the ground. He isn't as bad in person as in those pictures, but his plus is he is one of the most pleasant studs to be around. His ownership record is a disaster, and would you believe one of the owners paid, I think, around the &75,000 mark for him? He is Mister GQ bred. I am not 100 percent sure, but he might be a gelding now. And he had a little bit of training before this picture was taken.
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